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Thread: When is an Enfield not an Enfield?

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    When is an Enfield not an Enfield?

    At first glance this looks like any other mid fifties built No4 Mk2 until you look at the markings. The rifle came from a dealer in Jersey (for our friends across the pond that is a small island that is part of the channel island group just north west of Franceicon).
    The barrel and action carry sold out of service marks and a lot of the other parts exhibit various date letters and marks. All of the major parts have been serial numbered to the rifle along with the "C" inside a circle, the serial number N1659 would seem to indicate that a batch of these rifles were made but by whom??? At first I thought of Charnwood Ordinance but as far as I know all of their production started with a C-O-xxxxx serial number. The rifle has been very well assembled and correctly stocked up so does anyone know who built it???

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    Really Senior Member Alan de Enfield's Avatar
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    A Fazakerley barrel
    Serial number suggests BSA
    London Civilian Proof Marks
    "C in a Circle" - Canadianicon Ownership.
    Last edited by Alan de Enfield; 05-29-2019 at 03:56 PM.
    Mine are not the best, but they are not too bad. I can think of lots of Enfields I'd rather have but instead of constantly striving for more, sometimes it's good to be satisfied with what one has...

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    Interesting beast, Faz 1956 barrel, must have been one of the very last Faz barrels manufactured.

    So a Faz No4 mk2 in Canadian service, that's interesting in itself, trials of some sort perhaps, as Canadaicon never adopted the Mk2.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan de Enfield View Post
    "C in a Circle" - Canadianicon Ownership
    That's another thought that I had but a well know Canadian forum user assures me that no such beast exists.

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    We always had the Canadianicon mark as an arrow within a C. Personally, and I could be wrong, but I think it's someone with a Fazakerley Mk2, a set of stamps, a hammer and..............

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    Really Senior Member Alan de Enfield's Avatar
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    I have seen it recently but the meaning has not 'stuck with me'.

    I think it was something along the line of C in a circle was Canadianicon Arsenals and was used on 7.62 Conversions.
    Mine are not the best, but they are not too bad. I can think of lots of Enfields I'd rather have but instead of constantly striving for more, sometimes it's good to be satisfied with what one has...

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    Really Senior Member Strangely Brown's Avatar
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    Are sold out of service stamps common on No.4 Mk2's?
    I'm not sure I've seen one on a Mk2 receiver before.
    Mick

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    We used to see hundreds of captured Canadianicon lend lease stuff in 'bond' at Vung Tau on its way for destruction or shipment elsewhere - to Australiaicon, the UKicon or Malaya etc and the Arrow-in-a-C was the identification logo.

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    Peter is right about the Canadian property mark.....A broadarrow in a C. The broadarrow (Britishicon) dates back to somewhere in the 1300s and denotes King's stores. Canadaicon started using a Canadianized form in the late 1800s by putting a C around the broadarrow, thus denoting Canadian government property. After WW2, the RCMP complained that there was so much surplus on the market with the C/l\ that they could not tell what was sold and what was stolen. By 1949 the C/l\ was officially dropped, although you will still find it stamped on kit much later (likely due to manufacturers following DND manufacturer drawings). As well, armourers seemed to continue to electro-pencil it onto small arms parts. Post 1949, there is a styalized arrow that inspection services used, but it was more of an inspection mark than a property mark.

    There was also the C in an oval on some Enfield Riflesicon that were thought to be used by shooting clubs or at Connought. It is thought the C in the oval denoted "competition", and usually would also have a 5G or a 6G on the wrist, likely denoting 5 groove or 6 groove rifling.

    As to your C in a circle, I have seen a lot of Canadian weapons, and have never seen that mark on one.

    Canada did end up with a bunch of no4mk2 rifles as part of the Ranger program. LB rifles were becoming short in supply, so the Canadian government went onto the world market to purchase more Enfields, and ended up with no4mk2 rifles around the 1999 timeline. No specific support was ever listed for the variations of that type rifle. All the no4 Enfields are now being pulled from Cdn military service as we speak. Any parts that are not common to the Cno7 rifle have been listed as being for disposal.
    Last edited by stencollector; 06-15-2019 at 07:42 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stencollector View Post
    Peter is right about the Canadian property mark.....A broadarrow in a C. The broadarrow (Britishicon) dates back to somewhere in the 1300s and denotes King's stores. Canadaicon started using a Canadianized form in the late 1800s by putting a C around the broadarrow, thus denoting Canadian government property. After WW2, the RCMP complained that there was so much surplus on the market with the C/l\ that they could not tell what was sold and what was stolen. By 1949 the C/l\ was officially dropped, although you will still find it stamped on kit much later (likely due to manufacturers following DND manufacturer drawings). As well, armourers seemed to continue to electro-pencil it onto small arms parts. Post 1949, there is a styalized arrow that inspection services used, but it was more of an inspection mark than a property mark.

    There was also the C in an oval on some Enfield Riflesicon that were thought to be used by shooting clubs or at Connought. It is thought the C in the oval denoted "competition", and usually would also have a 5G or a 6G on the wrist, likely denoting 5 groove or 6 groove rifling.

    As to your C in a circle, I have seen a lot of Canadian weapons, and have never seen that mark on one.

    Canada did end up with a bunch of no4mk2 rifles as part of the Ranger program. LB rifles were becoming short in supply, so the Canadian government went onto the world market to purchase more Enfields, and ended up with no4mk2 rifles around the 1999 timeline. No specific support was ever listed for the variations of that type rifle. All the no4 Enfields are now being pulled from Cdn military service as we speak. Any parts that are not common to the Cno7 rifle have been listed as being for disposal.
    I believe some have identified that as a stylized maple leaf actually, though it looks more like a combination of the two - which could well have been the idea - after all it was the with the C Broad Arrow.
    "Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened." W.L.S.C..

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