+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 19

Thread: When is an Enfield not an Enfield?

Click here to increase the font size Click here to reduce the font size
  1. #1
    Contributing Member
    Buccaneer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Last On
    11-06-2019 @ 12:29 PM
    Location
    Cardiff Wales UK
    Posts
    353
    Local Date
    11-12-2019
    Local Time
    07:48 PM
    Real Name
    Paul Ellis

    When is an Enfield not an Enfield?

    At first glance this looks like any other mid fifties built No4 Mk2 until you look at the markings. The rifle came from a dealer in Jersey (for our friends across the pond that is a small island that is part of the channel island group just north west of Franceicon).
    The barrel and action carry sold out of service marks and a lot of the other parts exhibit various date letters and marks. All of the major parts have been serial numbered to the rifle along with the "C" inside a circle, the serial number N1659 would seem to indicate that a batch of these rifles were made but by whom??? At first I thought of Charnwood Ordinance but as far as I know all of their production started with a C-O-xxxxx serial number. The rifle has been very well assembled and correctly stocked up so does anyone know who built it???

    Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	P1040139.JPG‎
Views:	374
Size:	566.7 KB
ID:	100676   Click image for larger version

Name:	P1040138.JPG‎
Views:	365
Size:	637.4 KB
ID:	100677   Click image for larger version

Name:	P1040137.JPG‎
Views:	353
Size:	589.8 KB
ID:	100678   Click image for larger version

Name:	P1040136.jpg‎
Views:	340
Size:	682.3 KB
ID:	100679   Click image for larger version

Name:	P1040135.JPG‎
Views:	341
Size:	677.1 KB
ID:	100680   Click image for larger version

Name:	P1040134.JPG‎
Views:	163
Size:	896.1 KB
ID:	100681   Click image for larger version

Name:	P1040133.JPG‎
Views:	172
Size:	839.5 KB
ID:	100682  

    Click image for larger version

Name:	P1040132.JPG‎
Views:	184
Size:	909.0 KB
ID:	100683   Click image for larger version

Name:	P1040131.JPG‎
Views:	169
Size:	699.8 KB
ID:	100684   Click image for larger version

Name:	P1040130.JPG‎
Views:	144
Size:	741.3 KB
ID:	100685   Click image for larger version

Name:	P1040129.JPG‎
Views:	167
Size:	384.2 KB
ID:	100686   Click image for larger version

Name:	P1040128.JPG‎
Views:	171
Size:	432.4 KB
ID:	100687  

  2. # ADS
    Friends and Sponsors
    Join Date
    October 2006
    Location
    Milsurps.Com
    Posts
    All Threads
    Banner AD Space Available - Click HERE to Inquire We specialise in military utensils and artefacts such as helmets, daggers, medals and badges, etc.  The on-line store is intended for personal browsing and searching of collecting objects. All items are provided historical value only and can be used for home collection or other purposes except of fascism, Nazism or other extremism manifestation or its propaganda. LIMITED TIME OFFER FROM THE AMERICAN GUNSMITHING INSTITUTE: Get Immediate Online Access To AGI's NEW Armorer's Course for Glock Pistols, Covering Every Generation of Glocks, Including the Latest Model 42/43 and Double Stack Pistols for ONLY $7.00! Brian Dick ... BDL Ltd. - Specializing in British and Commonwealth weapons Chuck in Denver ... Buy-Sell-Trade .. Guns, Cars Motorcycles Your source for the finest in High Power Competition Gear. Here at T-bones Shipwrighting we specialise in vintage service rifle: re-barrelling, bedding, repairs, modifications and accurizing. We also provide importation services for firearms, parts and weapons, for both private or commercial businesses. Banner AD Space Available - Click HERE to Inquire
     

  3. #2
    Really Senior Member Alan de Enfield's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Last On
    Today @ 02:19 PM
    Location
    Eastern England
    Posts
    1,509
    Local Date
    11-12-2019
    Local Time
    07:48 PM
    A Fazakerley barrel
    Serial number suggests BSA
    London Civilian Proof Marks
    "C in a Circle" - Canadianicon Ownership.
    Last edited by Alan de Enfield; 05-29-2019 at 04:56 PM.
    Mine are not the best, but they are not too bad. I can think of lots of Enfields I'd rather have but instead of constantly striving for more, sometimes it's good to be satisfied with what one has...

  4. Avoid Ads - Become a Contributing Member - Click HERE
  5. #3
    Contributing Member mrclark303's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Last On
    Today @ 03:44 PM
    Location
    The wild west of England
    Posts
    2,436
    Local Date
    11-12-2019
    Local Time
    08:48 PM
    Real Name
    Mr Clark
    Interesting beast, Faz 1956 barrel, must have been one of the very last Faz barrels manufactured.

    So a Faz No4 mk2 in Canadian service, that's interesting in itself, trials of some sort perhaps, as Canadaicon never adopted the Mk2.

  6. #4
    Contributing Member
    Buccaneer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Last On
    11-06-2019 @ 12:29 PM
    Location
    Cardiff Wales UK
    Posts
    353
    Local Date
    11-12-2019
    Local Time
    07:48 PM
    Real Name
    Paul Ellis
    Thread Starter
    Quote Originally Posted by Alan de Enfield View Post
    "C in a Circle" - Canadianicon Ownership
    That's another thought that I had but a well know Canadian forum user assures me that no such beast exists.

  7. #5
    Advisory Panel
    Peter Laidler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Last On
    Today @ 03:10 PM
    Location
    Abingdon, Oxfordshire. The home of MG Cars
    Posts
    16,222
    Local Date
    11-12-2019
    Local Time
    09:48 PM
    We always had the Canadianicon mark as an arrow within a C. Personally, and I could be wrong, but I think it's someone with a Fazakerley Mk2, a set of stamps, a hammer and..............

  8. The Following 3 Members Say Thank You to Peter Laidler For This Useful Post:


  9. #6
    Really Senior Member Alan de Enfield's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Last On
    Today @ 02:19 PM
    Location
    Eastern England
    Posts
    1,509
    Local Date
    11-12-2019
    Local Time
    07:48 PM
    I have seen it recently but the meaning has not 'stuck with me'.

    I think it was something along the line of C in a circle was Canadianicon Arsenals and was used on 7.62 Conversions.
    Mine are not the best, but they are not too bad. I can think of lots of Enfields I'd rather have but instead of constantly striving for more, sometimes it's good to be satisfied with what one has...

  10. #7
    Really Senior Member Strangely Brown's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Last On
    Today @ 02:21 PM
    Location
    Wiltshire UK
    Age
    68
    Posts
    407
    Local Date
    11-12-2019
    Local Time
    07:48 PM
    Are sold out of service stamps common on No.4 Mk2's?
    I'm not sure I've seen one on a Mk2 receiver before.
    Mick

  11. #8
    Advisory Panel
    Peter Laidler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Last On
    Today @ 03:10 PM
    Location
    Abingdon, Oxfordshire. The home of MG Cars
    Posts
    16,222
    Local Date
    11-12-2019
    Local Time
    09:48 PM
    We used to see hundreds of captured Canadianicon lend lease stuff in 'bond' at Vung Tau on its way for destruction or shipment elsewhere - to Australiaicon, the UKicon or Malaya etc and the Arrow-in-a-C was the identification logo.

  12. Thank You to Peter Laidler For This Useful Post:


  13. #9
    Advisory Panel stencollector's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Last On
    Yesterday @ 11:38 PM
    Location
    Shilo MB
    Posts
    761
    Local Date
    11-12-2019
    Local Time
    03:48 PM
    Peter is right about the Canadian property mark.....A broadarrow in a C. The broadarrow (Britishicon) dates back to somewhere in the 1300s and denotes King's stores. Canadaicon started using a Canadianized form in the late 1800s by putting a C around the broadarrow, thus denoting Canadian government property. After WW2, the RCMP complained that there was so much surplus on the market with the C/l\ that they could not tell what was sold and what was stolen. By 1949 the C/l\ was officially dropped, although you will still find it stamped on kit much later (likely due to manufacturers following DND manufacturer drawings). As well, armourers seemed to continue to electro-pencil it onto small arms parts. Post 1949, there is a styalized arrow that inspection services used, but it was more of an inspection mark than a property mark.

    There was also the C in an oval on some Enfield Riflesicon that were thought to be used by shooting clubs or at Connought. It is thought the C in the oval denoted "competition", and usually would also have a 5G or a 6G on the wrist, likely denoting 5 groove or 6 groove rifling.

    As to your C in a circle, I have seen a lot of Canadian weapons, and have never seen that mark on one.

    Canada did end up with a bunch of no4mk2 rifles as part of the Ranger program. LB rifles were becoming short in supply, so the Canadian government went onto the world market to purchase more Enfields, and ended up with no4mk2 rifles around the 1999 timeline. No specific support was ever listed for the variations of that type rifle. All the no4 Enfields are now being pulled from Cdn military service as we speak. Any parts that are not common to the Cno7 rifle have been listed as being for disposal.
    Last edited by stencollector; 06-15-2019 at 08:42 AM.

  14. The Following 2 Members Say Thank You to stencollector For This Useful Post:


  15. #10
    Advisory Panel Surpmil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Last On
    06-25-2019 @ 03:00 AM
    Location
    Gold Mountain
    Posts
    2,687
    Local Date
    11-12-2019
    Local Time
    12:48 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by stencollector View Post
    Peter is right about the Canadian property mark.....A broadarrow in a C. The broadarrow (Britishicon) dates back to somewhere in the 1300s and denotes King's stores. Canadaicon started using a Canadianized form in the late 1800s by putting a C around the broadarrow, thus denoting Canadian government property. After WW2, the RCMP complained that there was so much surplus on the market with the C/l\ that they could not tell what was sold and what was stolen. By 1949 the C/l\ was officially dropped, although you will still find it stamped on kit much later (likely due to manufacturers following DND manufacturer drawings). As well, armourers seemed to continue to electro-pencil it onto small arms parts. Post 1949, there is a styalized arrow that inspection services used, but it was more of an inspection mark than a property mark.

    There was also the C in an oval on some Enfield Riflesicon that were thought to be used by shooting clubs or at Connought. It is thought the C in the oval denoted "competition", and usually would also have a 5G or a 6G on the wrist, likely denoting 5 groove or 6 groove rifling.

    As to your C in a circle, I have seen a lot of Canadian weapons, and have never seen that mark on one.

    Canada did end up with a bunch of no4mk2 rifles as part of the Ranger program. LB rifles were becoming short in supply, so the Canadian government went onto the world market to purchase more Enfields, and ended up with no4mk2 rifles around the 1999 timeline. No specific support was ever listed for the variations of that type rifle. All the no4 Enfields are now being pulled from Cdn military service as we speak. Any parts that are not common to the Cno7 rifle have been listed as being for disposal.
    I believe some have identified that as a stylized maple leaf actually, though it looks more like a combination of the two - which could well have been the idea - after all it was the with the C Broad Arrow.
    "Deer-stalking would be a very fine sport if only the deer had guns." W. S. Gilbert.

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Update: How to wrap an Enfield pull-through and steps for Enfield care & cleaning
    By Badger in forum The Lee Enfield Knowledge Library Collectors Forum
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 09-13-2013, 10:30 AM
  2. 1924 ShtLE (Short Lee-Enfield) No.1 MkV Rifle (Mfg by RSAF Enfield)
    By Badger in forum The Lee Enfield Knowledge Library Collectors Forum
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 04-07-2007, 01:12 PM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts