+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 22

Thread: Volley sights?

Click here to increase the font size Click here to reduce the font size
  1. #1
    Moderator
    (Edged Weapons Forum)
    sdh1911's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Last On
    02-23-2016 @ 03:41 PM
    Location
    Stanhope, New Jersey
    Age
    67
    Posts
    927
    Local Date
    03-29-2024
    Local Time
    06:39 AM

    Question Volley sights?

    Could anybody tell me a little about the volley sights used on early Enfield Riflesicon. What I am thinking is what was the distance the sight was set for, was there any add-ons used with the rear sight, have you ever used one and were they effective.-SDH
    Information
    Warning: This is a relatively older thread
    This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

  2. # ADS
    Friends and Sponsors
    Join Date
    October 2006
    Location
    Milsurps.Com
    Age
    2010
    Posts
    All Threads
    A Collector's View - The SMLE Short Magazine Lee Enfield 1903-1989. It is 300 8.5x11 inch pages with 1,000+ photo’s, most in color, and each book is serial-numbered.  Covering the SMLE from 1903 to the end of production in India in 1989 it looks at how each model differs and manufacturer differences from a collecting point of view along with the major accessories that could be attached to the rifle. For the record this is not a moneymaker, I hope just to break even, eventually, at $80/book plus shipping.  In the USA shipping is $5.00 for media mail.  I will accept PayPal, Zelle, MO and good old checks (and cash if you want to stop by for a tour!).  CLICK BANNER to send me a PM for International pricing and shipping. Manufacturer of various vintage rifle scopes for the 1903 such as our M73G4 (reproduction of the Weaver 330C) and Malcolm 8X Gen II (Unertl reproduction). Several of our scopes are used in the CMP Vintage Sniper competition on top of 1903 rifles. Brian Dick ... BDL Ltd. - Specializing in British and Commonwealth weapons Specializing in premium ammunition and reloading components. Your source for the finest in High Power Competition Gear. Here at T-bones Shipwrighting we specialise in vintage service rifle: re-barrelling, bedding, repairs, modifications and accurizing. We also provide importation services for firearms, parts and weapons, for both private or commercial businesses.
     

  3. #2
    Senior Moderator
    (Founding Partner)


    Site Founder
    Claven2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Last On
    08-09-2023 @ 10:17 PM
    Location
    Scandaltown, Ontario
    Posts
    3,242
    Real Name
    Ronald
    Local Date
    03-29-2024
    Local Time
    06:39 AM
    You'd need at least a 2000 yard range to use a volley sight, so I doubt anyone here has used one. They aren't meant to be accurate.

    Large formations would use volley sights to pepper a distant area with disrupting fire.

    The Machinegun largely replaced volley sights in this role
    Союз нерушимый республик свободных Сплотила навеки Великая Русь. Да здравствует созданный волей народов Единый, могучий Советский Союз!

  4. Avoid Ads - Become a Contributing Member - Click HERE
  5. #3
    Administrator

    Site Owner
    Badger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Last On
    @
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Age
    75
    Posts
    12,941
    Real Name
    Doug
    Local Date
    03-29-2024
    Local Time
    07:39 AM
    My Videos in Video Club
    12

    Lightbulb

    Extracted from the Englandicon - Milsurp Knowledge Libraryicon section.


    Enfield Dial Sights (Variations)

    Top row, left to right:

    Unmarked, 1800-3500 yd. range, used on Lee-Metford Mk. I
    Unmarked, 1600-2900 yd. range, used on Lee-Metford Mk. I*
    Marked “II”, 1600-2800 yd. range, used on Lee-Metford Mk. II & II*, (Long) Lee-Enfield Mk. I & I*, and Charger Loaders sighted for Mk. II & Mk. VI ball

    Second row, left to right:

    Marked “I”, 1600-2800 yd. range, used on some commercial Long Lees (also seen unmarked)
    Marked “CL” 1700-2700 yard range, used on Charger Loaders sighted for Mk. VII ball
    Marked “LES”, 1600-2800 yd. range, used on early Short Lees sighted for Mk. II & Mk. VI ball

    Bottom row, left to right:

    Marked “LES2”, 1700-2800 yd. range, used on early Short Lees with the c.1910 sight modifications for Mk. VII ball
    Marked “LES III”, 1600-2800 yd. range, used on later Short Lees originally sighted for Mk. VII ball
    Unmarked, 1500-2600 yard range, extra long pointer, used on P14s.


  6. The Following 6 Members Say Thank You to Badger For This Useful Post:


  7. #4
    Moderator
    (Edged Weapons Forum)
    sdh1911's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Last On
    02-23-2016 @ 03:41 PM
    Location
    Stanhope, New Jersey
    Age
    67
    Posts
    927
    Local Date
    03-29-2024
    Local Time
    06:39 AM
    Thread Starter
    Seems a bit optimistic, but, with a stroke of luck it could produce less enemy solders to have to deal with. This could also be said for about 95% of the ladder sights you see on most milsurp rifles, I think the sights are there to make the solders feel better rather than a practical application, but, hey should one shot connect, its all paid for. SDH

  8. #5
    Senior Moderator
    (Founding Partner)


    Site Founder
    Claven2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Last On
    08-09-2023 @ 10:17 PM
    Location
    Scandaltown, Ontario
    Posts
    3,242
    Real Name
    Ronald
    Local Date
    03-29-2024
    Local Time
    06:39 AM
    Bear in mind, a volley sight attack would involve dozens of brits lined up in formation emptying 10 round mags with most rounds landing in a one acre square or so.

    It was so effective in the opening months of WW1 in fall of 1914 that many Germanicon units mistakenly believed their positions had been pre-sighted by Britishicon machineguns.

    Bear in mind tht WW1 didn't devolve into a trench war until the spring of 1915 Once both sides entrenched, volley fire became essentially useless. IT worked best against large formations of troops on the move. As always, the brits planned for the previous European war - in this case Napoleonic style strugges between massive troop formations in the open fields of Europe. They still believed a future European war would follow civilized notions of gallant struggle, unlike the Africans and their debased ungentlemanly conduct during the Boer War.

    Some things never change...
    Союз нерушимый республик свободных Сплотила навеки Великая Русь. Да здравствует созданный волей народов Единый, могучий Советский Союз!

  9. Thank You to Claven2 For This Useful Post:


  10. #6
    Advisory Panel green's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Last On
    12-22-2023 @ 08:18 PM
    Posts
    445
    Local Date
    03-29-2024
    Local Time
    06:39 AM
    Auxilliary long range sights were a feature on Belgian, Danishicon and Austrian rifles as well as Britainicon.

  11. #7
    Legacy Member Doug2500's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Last On
    06-26-2020 @ 08:38 AM
    Location
    West Kelowna, BC
    Posts
    18
    Local Date
    03-29-2024
    Local Time
    04:39 AM
    I recently purchased one of these that was advertised as No. 1 Mk III front volley sight. I got it the other day and it appears to be for a P14. Range is 1500-2600 yards and the arm looks longer than the ones in the photos. Appears to be Remington(R) marked on the back of the plate and the arm too.

    I'm not too disappointed because I have a P14 this can go on, and the price was pretty good. My P14 already has the plate, stock screw, arm screw, and spring, so I just really needed the arm.

    My No. 1 Mk III has the sight plate (1600-2600 yards) and stock screw, but no arm, arm screw, or spring. Are the arm screws and spring interchangeable on these?

    If so, anybody know where a can buy just the arm?

  12. #8
    Legacy Member Paul S.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Last On
    04-08-2020 @ 06:58 PM
    Location
    Back and forth between Sydney and Southern California
    Posts
    1,594
    Local Date
    03-29-2024
    Local Time
    06:39 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by sdh1911 View Post
    Seems a bit optimistic, but, with a stroke of luck it could produce less enemy solders to have to deal with. This could also be said for about 95% of the ladder sights you see on most milsurp rifles, I think the sights are there to make the solders feel better rather than a practical application, but, hey should one shot connect, its all paid for. SDH
    Actually it could be and was very effective.

    Think tactically. You command a company of infantry in a defensive position, say the South African Veldt (Boer War). Advancing towards you is a larger body of enemy troops still in formation - on foot or mounted (given the rule of thumb for attacking a defensive position is a 3:1 ratio in favour of the attackers). You may or may not have machine guns. Your choice is to use the machine guns at distance (indirect fire role) and exhaust their ammunition supply, or hold them in reserve for close defence, crossing direct fire and use plunging rifle volley fire at range to reduce, slow and possibly deter the enemy force. Arranging a platoon in ranks, your firing order is to set sights for X distance, one round, volley, fire, reload, sights at X-z, one round, volley, fire, .... The enemy body of troops is confronted with repeated volleys of 30 to 40 rounds plunging into their ranks even if they are in low ground.

    I will add that the magazine cut-off was there specifically for volley fire use, thereby keeping the magazine full for close defence direct fire.

  13. #9
    Legacy Member peregrinvs's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Last On
    03-22-2024 @ 05:41 PM
    Location
    Hertfordshire, UK
    Age
    50
    Posts
    536
    Local Date
    03-29-2024
    Local Time
    11:39 AM

  14. Thank You to peregrinvs For This Useful Post:


  15. #10
    Legacy Member Doug2500's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Last On
    06-26-2020 @ 08:38 AM
    Location
    West Kelowna, BC
    Posts
    18
    Local Date
    03-29-2024
    Local Time
    04:39 AM
    Assembled this on to my P14 today. I can see why they did away with them. It appears that as you work the arm back and forth the screw will loosen and, I suspect in combat, eventually fall out.

    Also, the arm screw dies not appear to be interchangeable with the Lee Enfield volley sight plate.

    Anybody else have similar experience with these?

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Raven Rocks