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  1. #1
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    dirty doc's Avatar
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    OBLITERATED OR ABSENT SERIAL NUMBERS OR RE-NUMBERED

    WHAT TO DO. I AM LOOKING AT 2 BRING BACK 1911s, ONE BEING AN A1. PARDON THE BOLD, CAPPED LARGE LETTERS. EYESIGHT THING. ONE FRIEND, A LT.COL. WHO WAS IN O.S.S. IN WWII BROUGHT BACK HIS SERVICE 1911-A1. IT HAS NO SER.# OR U.S.iconPROPERTY MARKINGS; ONLY THE "REMINGTON RAND". THEN, A LOCAL WIDOW RETRIEVED HER CORPMAN HUSBAND'S KNUCKLE KNIFE AND 45 FROM UNDER THE WOODPILE (INSIDE PORCH)after he died AND WANTS TO SELL THEM. I PROMISED I WOULD HANDLE IT. HER 1911 IS S.A. OVER COLT FRAME WITH ONE EACH MFG GRIP. ALL ELSE IS MISHAMSH OF WWI PARTS. IT WAS ISSUED TO HIM WITH AN OBLITERATED SERIAL NUMBER AND A HAND STAMPED "X11** REPLACEMENT NUMBER. ALL PARTS ARE WWI. HE SERVED BOTH IN WWI AND WWII. MY ATF AGENT FRIEND USES PHRASES LIKE "BURN IN HELL FOR YOUR SINS...." WHERE ARE WE IN THIS. MY BROTHER INHERITED A "SPOOK" 1911-A1 DECADES AGO WITH NO MARKINGS BUT THE MFG. I ALSO HAVE A RE-CAPTURE 1911-A1 WHICH THE N.V.A. HAD OBLITERATED ALL U.S. MARKINGS, #'S AND PROOFS ON THE RECEIVER. IT IS RE-NUMBERED OVER THE OLD # AND HAS A DEEP # UNDER THE GRIPS. WHAT THE HAY ARE THESE LEGALLY. THANK YOU!!! DIRTY DOC
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    A Collector's View - The SMLE Short Magazine Lee Enfield 1903-1989. It is 300 8.5x11 inch pages with 1,000+ photo’s, most in color, and each book is serial-numbered.  Covering the SMLE from 1903 to the end of production in India in 1989 it looks at how each model differs and manufacturer differences from a collecting point of view along with the major accessories that could be attached to the rifle. For the record this is not a moneymaker, I hope just to break even, eventually, at $80/book plus shipping.  In the USA shipping is $5.00 for media mail.  I will accept PayPal, Zelle, MO and good old checks (and cash if you want to stop by for a tour!).  CLICK BANNER to send me a PM for International pricing and shipping. Manufacturer of various vintage rifle scopes for the 1903 such as our M73G4 (reproduction of the Weaver 330C) and Malcolm 8X Gen II (Unertl reproduction). Several of our scopes are used in the CMP Vintage Sniper competition on top of 1903 rifles. Brian Dick ... BDL Ltd. - Specializing in British and Commonwealth weapons Specializing in premium ammunition and reloading components. Your source for the finest in High Power Competition Gear. Here at T-bones Shipwrighting we specialise in vintage service rifle: re-barrelling, bedding, repairs, modifications and accurizing. We also provide importation services for firearms, parts and weapons, for both private or commercial businesses.
     

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    Contributing Member Gil Boyd's Avatar
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    Well Dirty Doc,
    Lot there to pick from.............not really sure what you want to hear.
    But I suppose I'll leave it to someone your side of the pond, as serial numbers washed out in any country, are as popular with agencies like the ATF, as a porcupine in a Durex factory.
    Simply put, you have two .45's and a knuckleduster knife, I am sure someone will pick the bones out of what you potentially have and respond. Good luck.
    'Tonight my men and I have been through hell and back again, but the look on your faces when we let you out of the hall - we'd do it all again tomorrow.' Major Chris Keeble's words to Goose Green villagers on 29th May 1982 - 2 PARA

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    Contributing Member rcathey's Avatar
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    You can get a new serial from the ATF. There’s a form for it. I’ve seen a Kragicon with a stamped in number that started with ATF.
    There’s always the chance that they’ll decide it’s easier to destroy it though.
    For me personally, it wouldn’t be worth it. I may purchase a firearm in a case like this if I had the opportunity, but I’d just part it out and destroy the receiver....which is probably also illegal so don’t listen to me haha.

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    Advisory Panel browningautorifle's Avatar
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    I would think that would work fine, sell the parts kits and lose the frame to local LEO if you know one. Your only other choice is to give it a number but the stamps are so small...it would be suspect. The parts can be worth a fortune alone if you have certain parts by manufacture. The knuckle knife can be valuable. Good luck with this one, others will be along...
    Regards, Jim

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    I came across this information using our Search:

    Serial Number

    https://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=12732

    https://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=14708

    The Middle link above has a reply by fellow member WTMR, it is reply #10. I know he has had at least 2 (or 3 by now) M1icon carbines that he had ATF assign numbers to.
    Below is his reply from that link:

    new serial number
    in those same regulations there is a section that pertains to if you "have" a gun with serial or name obliterated or removed. It details that you can apply for a new serial at your local ATF office. They will not put it on for you but they have to inspect it before to determine if has been used in a crime, then they if satisfied it has not been will help you get new number issued. Then they give it back to you and call you with a new number that is then registered in your name. Then you have to bring it back to them to see that number has been applied. There is no charge for this. Then the gun can be sold in interstate commerce. I have had it done to two carbines now. One that has never been applied is ok to but if gun looks ground on its a technical issue and is subject to interpretation by someone not of your choosing.


    I have a feeling with all our older Vets passing that ATF is seeing more of this now than in the previous years.
    Be sure to speak with a Seasoned Member of the BATF to avoid or limit any confusion.
    War souvenirs needing serial numbers........

    Good Luck,
    Charlie-Painter777

    A Country Has No Greater Responsibility Than To Care For Those Who Served...

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    Advisory Panel browningautorifle's Avatar
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    Great info Charlie...
    Regards, Jim

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    Contributing Member mmppres's Avatar
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    Check with a local ATF agent most of them are able to help you . I have never had any problems asking for there help.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mmppres View Post
    I have never had any problems asking for there help.
    The "Industry Operations Investigator" that performed the interview portion for my FFL told me that the ATF just wants to help people follow the law. Her exact phrasing was, "we're a kindler, gentler ATF these days."

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    I would leave where it is.
    I always tell my collector mates to put originality at the top of their priority list, originality isn't something that can be restored. I've never seen a 1911 I didn't like.

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