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  1. #21
    Really Senior Member Woodsy's Avatar
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    A large quantity of No4 rifles were sold by tender to the NZicon dealers in the late 1960's. In 1969 I was working as the gunsmith for W H TIsdall Ltd in Christchurch and we had several hundred Long Branch No4's in cases of 10, brand new but all stamped N^Z on the butt. These were all two groovers with L back sights. A standard 'as issued' rifle was NZ$29.95 and $36.95 sporterised. I would take a case of rifle home every Friday and sporterise them over the weekend for $3.50 each. That was a good boost to the wages of a young married man on $65 per week!

    It was interesting to see Jock Annandale's name mentioned by Mr Clark as I knew him quite well when he was the Senior Armourer at Burnham Camp.

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  4. #22
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    I was hoping that you'd come in Woody. Jock was my boss at the Northern District Ord Depot when I had to give them brief tech details of the first GPMG's that had come into NZicon. I'm sure that me and the other army blokes went to Burnham and re-kitted with the basics after being cleared at the CCS/admin after the Wahine thing. There will be variations in the NZ markings because they were put on at the various Ord Depots and at different times and according to a master list held at ??? I never understood why either, but there you go. Especially if you were serving in places like Korea or UN/Cyprus or Malaya with pooled Ord resources when your units got what they were issued with! In Malaya there was a mix of AD, AD/NZ, UB and UE and it all used to come from Johore Bahru, even the Malay Army stuff went through our workshops initially.

    In respect of Clarkies Malay Army rifle, I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't a pooled Ordnance rifle that was issued out, left stuck in an RNZIR armoury somewhere in Malaya or Singapore (why use an L2 if you've got L4's to play with?) and when the whole control situation handed back to the Malay Army/Police, the NZ Army took back its allocation. Said several times but we had a VERY nice Ordnance Corps WO1 at 40 Base workshop and in the school holidays he would occasionally bring his 14 or 15 year old son into work, by arrangement, when we were range testing. He was very good and has probably fired more ammo and cleaned through more rifles, sub machine guns and Brens than every other civvy in the world!!!!!! His mum used to bring us young Aust/NZ and pommy Armourers (there's be about 4 of us) some fresh home made sarnies and orange juice. His mum was probably pulling her hair out at the state of his oily smelly clothes until we gave him some JG's (jungle greens) to change into. No ear boxes then of course so he's probably as deaf as a post now. Nice sister too called Christine. I took her out a few times and wrote to her when I was back '...up country' I wanted to go down and see her one weekend so........... That's another story for another day

    Some NZ, Aust and UKicon ammo techs (you know Wayne Le Gros Woody) were in our accommodation to. They were clearing out/destroying the old Japaneseicon ammo bunkers in Singapore and Penang and if I remember, lifting a submarine alongside the dock at Palau Brani where the RAASC/RCT DUKWS were based in order to get at the live torpedos on board

    Do you think that we've gone off thread enough for today?

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    Saw hundreds of No4 's boxed at Seletar in Singapore in 1973 if that helps.
    NZicon were in charge of the camp in those days, not sure why as it was always an RAF camp.

    I was just a Britishicon soldier on a jungle warfare course at Pulada, sent to try and get a GPMG fixed!!
    'Tonight my men and I have been through hell and back again, but the look on your faces when we let you out of the hall - we'd do it all again tomorrow.' Major Chris Keeble's words to Goose Green villagers on 29th May 1982 - 2 PARA

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  9. #24
    Contributing Member mrclark303's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Laidlericon View Post
    I was hoping that you'd come in Woody. Jock was my boss at the Northern District Ord Depot when I had to give them brief tech details of the first GPMG's that had come into NZicon. I'm sure that me and the other army blokes went to Burnham and re-kitted with the basics after being cleared at the CCS/admin after the Wahine thing. There will be variations in the NZ markings because they were put on at the various Ord Depots and at different times and according to a master list held at ??? I never understood why either, but there you go. Especially if you were serving in places like Korea or UN/Cyprus or Malaya with pooled Ord resources when your units got what they were issued with! In Malaya there was a mix of AD, AD/NZ, UB and UE and it all used to come from Johore Bahru, even the Malay Army stuff went through our workshops initially.

    In respect of Clarkies Malay Army rifle, I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't a pooled Ordnance rifle that was issued out, left stuck in an RNZIR armoury somewhere in Malaya or Singapore (why use an L2 if you've got L4's to play with?) and when the whole control situation handed back to the Malay Army/Police, the NZ Army took back its allocation. Said several times but we had a VERY nice Ordnance Corps WO1 at 40 Base workshop and in the school holidays he would occasionally bring his 14 or 15 year old son into work, by arrangement, when we were range testing. He was very good and has probably fired more ammo and cleaned through more rifles, sub machine guns and Brens than every other civvy in the world!!!!!! His mum used to bring us young Aust/NZ and pommy Armourers (there's be about 4 of us) some fresh home made sarnies and orange juice. His mum was probably pulling her hair out at the state of his oily smelly clothes until we gave him some JG's (jungle greens) to change into. No ear boxes then of course so he's probably as deaf as a post now. Nice sister too called Christine. I took her out a few times and wrote to her when I was back '...up country' I wanted to go down and see her one weekend so........... That's another story for another day

    Some NZ, Aust and UKicon ammo techs (you know Wayne Le Gros Woody) were in our accommodation to. They were clearing out/destroying the old Japaneseicon ammo bunkers in Singapore and Penang and if I remember, lifting a submarine alongside the dock at Palau Brani where the RAASC/RCT DUKWS were based in order to get at the live torpedos on board

    Do you think that we've gone off thread enough for today?
    All absolutely fascinating info Peter/ Woodsey and Gil (adds to the group information), re our traditional habbit of going off piste, I think we're gone so far off course on this occasion, were beyond the gravitational influence of the sun!

    Woodsy however did mention the Wartime standard 'L' backsight on the stored NZ No4's, so an answer was provided, among a wealth of other related NZ info.

  10. #25
    Contributing Member mrclark303's Avatar
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    Re Peters mixed ordnance hypothesis as to how my NZicon L2 found itself in the UKicon, it's certainly an idea I hadn't considered.

    Certainly, most of the deactivated L2A1's that came onto the UK market from the 90's to 2010 'ish' we're all Malay contract, with a few Singapore Police examples thrown in.

    Being the total inch pattern anorak that I am, I was gutted to find this unique NZ example come up for private sale on a UK sales Portal called Milweb, only to find I missed the boat...

    It resurfaced with a UK militaria dealer with the unique top cover and blanking plate missing!

    They had been replaced by standard units and the original parts sold separately.

    I did a deal for the lot, restored her and put her back together again ... A costly experience, but I am so glad I did it now.

  11. #26
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    Someone told me that the L2 backsights and covers all came from Canadaicon and Lithgowicon didn't tool up for them. They were always a bit flimsy and ALWAYS in short supply (or dues-out in armourer speak) and that's why I got some from from 4RAR in Malaya


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