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    Legacy Member maxman's Avatar
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    Early 32 Scope?

    I have an opportunity to pick up an unusual scope but would appreciate some input. The scope is the same size and shape of a No 32 scope, but is marked "TEL SIGHTING X 3.5" on one line and then "EXP. TROP. -1" in a line beneath. The turrets are brass but graduated similar to a 32 and no special tools are needed to adjust them for range or elevation.

    Could this be an early or experimental 32 scope? Sorry but no pictures yet.
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    TROP usually indicated 'tropicalised' as in for use in the tropics. You are asking a hypothetoical question because a) we don't know and b) we can't see it. We DID tropicalise No 32's but they were the Mk2's and the very few Mk1's that were doing the rounds. Put it another way....... Tropicalising something is a bit of a play on words so far as my limited experience of monsoons and the troppics is concerned. if something was totally air tight and sealed in a humidity free atmosphere, the tropicalisation might last a week or so. Like wrist watches and binoculars............. They'd let the tropical moisture IN but not let it OUT again!!!!!!!

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    I expect we've heard the last from Maxman..........

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    Contributing Member mrclark303's Avatar
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    I've only spent a limited amount of time in the tropics Peter.

    But after a period spent in the Mekong Delta back in the 90's, all our electronic equipment packed up and our clothes literally came apart at the seams.

    I really feel for the guys who had to live
    and fight in that unforgiving environment.

    The water gets into and moulds absolutely everything.

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    Contributing Member Gil Boyd's Avatar
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    John,
    As Peter will bear out, we tried everything in Malaya predominantly to see how long it lasted.
    I can say hand on heart, it looked great in its box, but once it saw the jungle and the humidity and constant rain NOTHING HMG gave us worked for long.

    Even the issue "Jungle webbing" that literally slid off you when it was wet. Made of plastic with anti slip buckles....NOT.
    Designed by a civvy in the UKicon somewhere.

    44 Pattern was all we ever preferred, it was designed for the climate back in WW2 and did what it said on the box!
    We ditched the Prismatic compasses as they filled with rain, and ALWAYS navigated on SILVA shop bought at De Borras in Aldershot in the day.........crazy !! Don't think we ever bothered with NVG's as we knew the issues.
    No different to the 9 Frigates tied up in Portsmouth currently cos their engines overheat in Gulf temperatures exactly where they are needed now!!
    'Tonight my men and I have been through hell and back again, but the look on your faces when we let you out of the hall - we'd do it all again tomorrow.' Major Chris Keeble's words to Goose Green villagers on 29th May 1982 - 2 PARA

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    Contributing Member mrclark303's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gil Boyd View Post
    John,
    As Peter will bear out, we tried everything in Malaya predominantly to see how long it lasted.
    I can say hand on heart, it looked great in its box, but once it saw the jungle and the humidity and constant rain NOTHING HMG gave us worked for long.

    Even the issue "Jungle webbing" that literally slid off you when it was wet. Made of plastic with anti slip buckles....NOT.
    Designed by a civvy in the UKicon somewhere.

    44 Pattern was all we ever preferred, it was designed for the climate back in WW2 and did what it said on the box!
    We ditched the Prismatic compasses as they filled with rain, and ALWAYS navigated on SILVA shop bought at De Borras in Aldershot in the day.........crazy !! Don't think we ever bothered with NVG's as we knew the issues.
    No different to the 9 Frigates tied up in Portsmouth currently cos their engines overheat in Gulf temperatures exactly where they are needed now!!
    My mates a wildlife documentary camera man Gil (a highly successful, well known chap these days), the equipment he took to the far East was state of the art professional (early 90's standards), designed for arctic to tropical use ... Failed after 3 days down in the Delta and only came back to life after being in an air-conditioned room for two days.

    It was apparently unusually humid, even by their standards, my KSB boots fell apart after one week and the sleeves literally fell off my shirt as the stitching failed on our clothes.

    Heat, humidity, giant cockroaches getting into everything,bitten from head to toe by insects, it has to be experienced to be believed.

    I was a young man then, I couldn't tolerate it now, give me hot and cold running water and Aircon and a comfortable bed, any day.

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    Legacy Member Bindi2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gil Boyd View Post
    John,

    No different to the 9 Frigates tied up in Portsmouth currently cos their engines overheat in Gulf temperatures exactly where they are needed now!!
    Same as any vehicle which comes to Australiaicon that has not had its cooling system changed for local conditions. We need cooling not warming.

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    Legacy Member maxman's Avatar
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    Thread Starter

    Early 32? - Follow Up

    The negotiation took a lot longer that expected. I apologize for the delay. Attached are some pictures of the scope. It is 11" overall length and the turrets are made of brass. I'd appreciate hearing from anyone with any information. Thanks Maxman

    Attachment 103804Attachment 103803Attachment 103802Attachment 103801Attachment 103800Attachment 103799

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    Advisory Panel Lee Enfield's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maxman View Post
    The negotiation took a lot longer that expected. I apologize for the delay. Attached are some pictures of the scope. It is 11" overall length and the turrets are made of brass. I'd appreciate hearing from anyone with any information. Thanks Maxman

    Attachment 103804Attachment 103803Attachment 103802Attachment 103801Attachment 103800Attachment 103799
    Looks very much like the C.No67 MkI without an adjustable eye piece.

    Certainly the turret design comes from a similar design basis point.

    Although windage appears to be on the left side (ala no 32).

    Too bad it isn't dated
    Last edited by Lee Enfield; 11-16-2019 at 12:43 PM.

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    Advisory Panel Lee Enfield's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maxman View Post
    The negotiation took a lot longer that expected. I apologize for the delay. Attached are some pictures of the scope. It is 11" overall length and the turrets are made of brass. I'd appreciate hearing from anyone with any information. Thanks Maxman

    Attachment 103804Attachment 103803Attachment 103802Attachment 103801Attachment 103800Attachment 103799
    Excerpt from the Canadianicon Military Historical Report Report No. 73:

    Sniper's Equipment
    38. Subsequent to a general survey of the situation on snipers equipment (109), a meeting
    was held in June 1943 to determine how best to meet both immediate and long term requirements
    (110). A number of comparative firing trials had been carried out on various commercial and
    service sights which appeared to indicate there was considerable room for improvement (111)
    (112) (113). For the longer term policy specifications were drawn up for a 5X telescope sight
    (114) (115) and 3-1/2X sight (116), and the production of prototypes was instituted (115) (117).
    The decision to design the lower power model came as a result of a suggestion originating in the
    United Kingdomicon (118). The War Office evinced considerable interest in the development of the
    two sights (119)
    , and by the end of November, 1943, were so actively concerned about the sniper
    situation that it seemed doubtful if the Canadian prototypes would be completed in time for full
    P.14
    consideration to be given to them by the War Office (120). In December an added requirement
    was introduced into the operational specification (121). This called for sights to be proofed
    against fungus growth under tropical conditions. Prototype samples of the telescope sights were
    sent to the United Kingdom in March 1944 (122), and at the same time steps were taken to
    modify the design in order to make it fungus-proof (123) (124).
    As a result of reports from the
    United Kingdom, which all indicated preference for the 5X over 3-1/2X model, an educational
    order for 100, 5X telescope sights was placed (125) (126) (127) (128) (129) (130). Speaking of
    the Canadian sights the Assistant Chief of the Imperial General Staff stated "that the Canadian
    5X and 3-1/2X telescopes were incomparably better in every way than anything that we or the
    Germans had so far produced, the 5X being better than the 3-1/2 X " (128). It caused no small
    surprise to learn in July 1944 that the provisional adoption of the 3-1/2X rather than the 5X sight
    had been recommended (131). This necessitated changing the educational order previously
    placed (132) (133). Concurrently, at War Office request, the Ministry of Supply initiated
    inquiries for production information based on a requirement for 4000 3-1/2X instruments (134),
    but were disappointed to learn that no deliveries could be made before April 1945 (135), whereas
    they had understood, on a basis of unofficial information (136) given without reference to the
    proper authorities (137), that deliveries could be completed by April 1945 (135). On account of
    the length of time required to start production the War Office order was not forthcoming (138).
    Nevertheless, interest in the sights remained (139), and found expression in a renewed inquiry for
    delivery estimates in March 1945 (140), although a 21 Army Group Report to the War Office
    (141) had stated: "there is no particular advantage to be obtained from the adoption of the
    Canadian Sniper's rifle". Four telescopes, two of each power, had been sent to the Western
    Theatre of Operations for user trial (142); two of these were "destroyed by enemy action" and a
    third captured complete with sniper (143).

    REFERENCES
    109. H.Q.S. 8928-11-54A, Vol 1. Crang, J.H. Possibility of Improvement of Present Sniping
    Rifle 11 Jun 43.
    110. Ibid, Minutes of Meeting held at A.T.D.B. 17 Jun 43.
    111. H.Q.S. 8928-11-54A, Vol 1, A.T.D.B. to D.S.D.(W) 15 Apr 43.
    112. Ibid, Macdonald, J.H.B. to Martin, T.B. 3 Jun 43.
    113. O.B. Procs 22211, 17 Mar 43.
    114. H.Q.S. 8928-11-54A, Vol 1, Minutes of Meeting held at R.E.L., 26 & 27 Jun 43.
    115. Ibid, Minutes of Meeting held at R.E.L. 17 Jul 43, 19 Jull 43.
    116. Ibid, R.E.L. to A.T.D.B. 10 Sep 43.
    117. Ibid, A.T.D.B. to D.O.S. (TS) 1 Sep 43.
    118. Ibid, Cable S.D.W. 156 to N.D.H.Q. 21 Aug 43.
    119. Ibid, Cable S.D.W. 576 to N.D.H.Q. 4 Nov 43.

    120. Ibid, Cable S.D.W. 728 to N.D.H.Q. 27 Nov 43.
    121. H.Q.S. 8928-11-54, Vol 2, S.D.W. 935 to N.D.H.Q., 24 Dec 43.
    122. Ibid, M.G.O. to C.M.H.Q., 2 Mar 44.
    123. H.Q.S. 8928-11-54A, Vol 3, R.E.L. to D.V.S.A. 18 Feb 44.
    124. H.Q.S. 8928-11-54, Vol 2, A.T.D.B. to D.M.G.O. (C), 9 Mar 44.

    125. Ibid, Vol 3, Report of Examination by N.P.L., Teddington, 3 Apr 44.
    126. Ibid, A.G.E. report 8 May 44.
    127. Ibid, Cable D.V.A. 739 to C.M.H.Q. 27 Jun 44.
    128. Ibid, Extracts from M. of S. Monthly Review of Research and Development Programmes,
    Field Weapons Programme, Item 12, undated.
    129. H.Q.S. 8928-11-54A, Vol 3, Experimental Establishment (Pendine) to Ordnance Board,
    5 Jun 44.
    130. Ibid, C.L.O. (T.L.G.) Pendine to S.D. 12, C.M.H.Q., undated.
    131. H.Q.S. 8928-11-54, Vol 3, Cable S.D.W. 2322 to N.D.H.Q. 3 Jul 44.
    132. Ibid, Cable D.V.A. 759 to C.M.H.Q. 6 Jul 44.
    133. H.Q.S. 8928-11-54A, Vol 3, D.V.S.A. to D. of M. & S., 6 Jul 44.
    134. Ibid, Cable S.D.W. 2379 to N.D.H.Q., 8 Jul 44.
    135. H.Q.S. 8928-11-54, Vol 3, Cable S.D.W. 2705 to N.D.H.Q., 17 Aug 44.
    136. H.Q.S. 8928-11-54A, Vol 3, copy of C.M.H.Q., 55/6252/P54.
    137. H.Q.S. 8928-11-54, Vol 3, D. of M&S to C.M.H.Q., 24 Aug 44.
    138. H.Q.S. 8928-11-54A, Vol 3, Cable S.D.W. 2858 to N.D.H.Q., 5 Sep 44.
    139. Ibid, Cable S.D.W. 3732 to N.D.H.Q., 19 Dec 44.
    140. Ibid, Vol 4, Cable D.V.S.A. 1281 to C.M.H.Q., 6 Mar 45.
    141. Ibid, Vol 3, 21 Army Group Report to W.O. (copy), 26 Dec 44.
    142. Ibid, C.M.H.Q. to N.D.H.Q. 11 Dec 44.
    143. Ibid, C.M.H.Q. to N.D.H.Q. 22 Dec 44.
    Last edited by Lee Enfield; 02-14-2020 at 01:08 PM.
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