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  1. #1
    Contributing Member muffett.2008's Avatar
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    Help Identify

    I'm hoping the collective brain can help identify these Uniforms.
    This trio are from the Frenchicon side of my wifes family.
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    Warning: This is a relatively older thread
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    Last edited by muffett.2008; 12-02-2022 at 04:22 AM.

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    A Collector's View - The SMLE Short Magazine Lee Enfield 1903-1989. It is 300 8.5x11 inch pages with 1,000+ photo’s, most in color, and each book is serial-numbered.  Covering the SMLE from 1903 to the end of production in India in 1989 it looks at how each model differs and manufacturer differences from a collecting point of view along with the major accessories that could be attached to the rifle. For the record this is not a moneymaker, I hope just to break even, eventually, at $80/book plus shipping.  In the USA shipping is $5.00 for media mail.  I will accept PayPal, Zelle, MO and good old checks (and cash if you want to stop by for a tour!).  CLICK BANNER to send me a PM for International pricing and shipping. Manufacturer of various vintage rifle scopes for the 1903 such as our M73G4 (reproduction of the Weaver 330C) and Malcolm 8X Gen II (Unertl reproduction). Several of our scopes are used in the CMP Vintage Sniper competition on top of 1903 rifles. Brian Dick ... BDL Ltd. - Specializing in British and Commonwealth weapons Specializing in premium ammunition and reloading components. Your source for the finest in High Power Competition Gear. Here at T-bones Shipwrighting we specialise in vintage service rifle: re-barrelling, bedding, repairs, modifications and accurizing. We also provide importation services for firearms, parts and weapons, for both private or commercial businesses.
     

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    Contributing Member Gil Boyd's Avatar
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    Muffett,
    The two ladies uniforms are clearly UKicon ATS uniforms. The women's branch of the army was called the Auxiliary Territorial Service, or ATS. Free Frenchicon badged.
    It was formed in 1938 and after one year 17,000 women volunteers had joined up.
    This number grew to over 200,000 by the end of 1943.
    The new recruits were sent to army camps for their basic training. Here they slept in huts, learnt to march and obey orders and kept the camp scrubbed clinically clean. At the end of the four weeks of training there were written and practical tests to find out which line of work they were best suited to.
    In terms of the lad in the middle, he was probably supplied that by an American Unit as Free French, looking at the shape of the cut on the pockets and the jacket. Hope that helps
    'Tonight my men and I have been through hell and back again, but the look on your faces when we let you out of the hall - we'd do it all again tomorrow.' Major Chris Keeble's words to Goose Green villagers on 29th May 1982 - 2 PARA

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    Contributing Member Flying10uk's Avatar
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    Isn't that a Frenchicon naval/marine cap badge that the chap is wearing, in the middle?

    I would have thought that both ladies would have been badly wanted by SOE because they were natural French speaking. If not for working as agents in France then for their knowledge of France and the French language, working in the UKicon.

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    Contributing Member muffett.2008's Avatar
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    Thread Starter
    Thanks Gil, both the girls, Cleo and Helene, were at one time part of the resistance, this pic is 1944.
    Helene and family emigrated to OZ in 1950, Cleo stayed in Franceicon, Constantine not sure about, but he did survive.

    I have a book on Uniforms but the wife has that much junk in front of that bookcase, it would take a Pantech to move it all.

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    Contributing Member Flying10uk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by muffett.2008 View Post
    both the girls, Cleo and Helene, were at one time part of the resistance, this pic is 1944.
    Suggesting that they were both in the SOE because they are seen in ATS uniforms, in the photo, which was sometimes used as a "cover" for SOE agents while in the UKicon.

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    Contributing Member muffett.2008's Avatar
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    Thread Starter
    Any clues on the colour bars worn by the girls?

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    Contributing Member Gil Boyd's Avatar
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    As a bit of a medal buff I would say they were both THE AFRICA STAR ribbons. Muffett might know of some service they both did in Morocco/Libya/Algeria during WW2!!
    'Tonight my men and I have been through hell and back again, but the look on your faces when we let you out of the hall - we'd do it all again tomorrow.' Major Chris Keeble's words to Goose Green villagers on 29th May 1982 - 2 PARA

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    Contributing Member Flying10uk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gil Boyd View Post
    Muffett might know of some service they both did in Morocco/Libya/Algeria during WW2!!
    Perhaps he would be kind enough to tell us if he does.

    Quote Originally Posted by muffett.2008 View Post
    both the girls, Cleo and Helene, were at one time part of the resistance, this pic is 1944.
    Helene and family emigrated to OZ in 1950, Cleo stayed in France
    He has already stated that both ladies were part of the resistance and I am assuming that he was referring to the Frenchicon resistance, not to the campaign in North Africa.

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    Contributing Member Gil Boyd's Avatar
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    Here you go at a guess from the image Muffett supplied above. SOE Men and Women operated in AFRICA/ITALY & GERMANY as well as FRANCE.
    However, if the medal tells a story, I bet they also did some special time in the sandpit too, and probably on Frenchicon former colony soil!
    Last edited by Gil Boyd; 09-21-2019 at 10:58 AM.
    'Tonight my men and I have been through hell and back again, but the look on your faces when we let you out of the hall - we'd do it all again tomorrow.' Major Chris Keeble's words to Goose Green villagers on 29th May 1982 - 2 PARA

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    Contributing Member Flying10uk's Avatar
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    The medals may be what you say, Gil, but the ATS uniform was normally used as a "cover" for female SOE agents, meaning that the ladies weren't actually doing what was normally associated with ATS personnel, they were secret agents.

    Quote Originally Posted by Flying10uk View Post
    He has already stated that both ladies were part of the resistance and I am assuming that he was referring to the Frenchicon resistance, not to the campaign in North Africa.
    SOE operated across occupied Europe.

    My understanding is that SOE agents normally "worked" in the SOE section that they were assigned to. For example, SOE agents "working" in the Norwegianicon section would normally expect to work in Norway unless a specific operation demanded that they cross into another country. A SOE agent wouldn't routinely expect to be sent to another country other than the country of the section that they were working for, in my opinion. An SOE agent working in the French section would normally expect to be sent to France but there could be operational reasons why they may have been sent to other countries, on occasions. I would expect a SOE agent routinely working in North Africa to be a member of the North African section, not the French section.

    The "Finishing School" for SOE agents was on the Beaulieu estate, now home to the UKicon's National Motor Museum.

    Clydeside Images.com: The SOE Memorial Plaque at Beaulieu
    Last edited by Flying10uk; 09-21-2019 at 12:30 PM.

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