Some Ammo Really Sucks...

[Mk VII]

Portuguese FNM stuff was available here at one time and I've still got some of the FB bullets they sold.

[harry mac]

Portuguese FNM stuff was available here at one time and I've still got some of the FB bullets they sold.

York Guns used to sell those, but not for many years now. I'm down to my last "oddment" of 30 bullets. I wonder why they decided on a bullet of 186 grns?

[Alan de Enfield]

PPU no longer list flat base bullet ammo for .303, only the 174 gn FMJ BT.

In the UK we only have 2 options for factory 303 ammo, either the PPU or Sellier & Bellot 180gn FMJ BT.
Never seen any other make of 303 for sale here in UK for target use.

I have seen Remington SP Core-Lokt hunting ammo in 303 for sale by one dealer in the UK, but you can't use that on most target ranges here.

Kynamo (Kynoch - UK manufacture) were manufacturing MkVII with flat based bullets.

[JMBM2]

Its the same in Ireland only S&B 180g and PPU 174g. I have seen Remington but never used it.
I have recently acquired some .303 MEN Surplus ammo, but have yet to try it out

[amadeus76]

**UPDATE**

So this weekend I went back out after swapping the scope for the rear sight I originally had on it. I took only the Hornady Vintage out with me this time and got the rifle zeroed proper. After which I took it out to 100 yards for five 5-shot groups. The worst I got was 2 MOA (3 out of 5 groups, so this was about average) with the best being 1.5 MOA... So yea, it was crappy ammo.

Now to start working up handloads.

[browningautorifle]

Thanks for the final comeback on that...

[Bruce_in_Oz]

3.5 MOA was pretty much "acceptance spec" at the factory.

[Alan de Enfield]

3.5 MOA was pretty much "acceptance spec" at the factory.

SMLE TESTING
For the SMLE All rifles were tested for accuracy by the Small Arms Inspection Department at 100ft, and 10% were also tested at 600 yds. All rifles were fired from a special mechanical rest, known as an Enfield Rest, and a special Telescope layer was used for laying an aim. The Enfield Rest was designed to simulate the conditions under which a rifle would be held when fired from the shoulder, and was provided with hand wheel adjustments for laying an aim. Trial shots were first fired and, if necessary the foresight was adjusted laterally, or replaced by one of a different height, until the shots on the target were within the required limits. Five rounds were then fired, and four of the five shots had to be contained in a rectangle 1 inch broad by 1½ in high. Rifle which failed this test were rejected. At 600 yds 10 shots were fired, nine of which had to fall within a 2 foot circle.

No 4 RIFLE TESTING
For the No 4 Rifle, the accuracy test was the same at 100ft ten per cent of all rifles were then fired at 200 yds when six of seven shots had to fall in a rectangle 6in x 6in , the point of mean impact having to be within 3 inches of the point of aim in any direction. Ten per cent of rifles fired at 200 yds were again fired at 600 yds when 6 out of seven shots had to be in a rectangle 18 inches x 18 inches the permissible deviation of point of mean impact being 9 inches up or down, or left or right. Two per cent of rifles were fired from the shoulder, ten rounds being fed into the magazine by charger and fired rapid to test “feeding up” and ejection. After these tests the barrel was inspected to ensure that there was no expansion in the bore or chamber and that it shaded correctly from end to end. (Was not bent)

No 5 TESTING
The firing test to which the No 5 rifle was subjected was the same as that for the No 4 at 100ft. It was not tested at 200 yds but 10 per cent were tested at 600 yards when the acceptance was ten out of ten shots contained in a rectangle 36 inches x 36 inches. Two per cent of the No 5 rifles were also submitted to the same functioning test as the No4 rifle.


Throughout World War 2 much of the accuracy testing was done by women shooters who quickly became proficient at the job. To speed up the procedure, the telescope layer was dispensed with, and aim was taken in the normal way through the back sight. The .1 inch aperture in the back sight was too large for easily laying a correct aim at 100ft, and a small spring steel adaptor was used.

[Bruce_in_Oz]

So, if one minute of angle is ROUGHLY one inch at 100 yards, a one inch group at 100 FEET would extrapolate to three inches at 100 Yards; pretty much three MOA.

Acceptance figures for service rifles of other "foreign" design were fairly similar.

Close enough for government work. Every so often, the stars, and the hand-fitted parts, would align and result in a rifle that would shoot the standard issue ball ammo into smaller groups. As the years passed, such oddities were separated out and tagged for "marksmen" and very soon afterwards, for conversion to "sniper" rigs.

A "sub-MOA", mass produced battle rifle would be an interesting thing to see in mud and sand. Anyway, looking at early tactics, rifles seem to have been regarded as expensive extension handles for bayonets. Bayonets (and cavalry sabres) were regarded as the "Proper" weapons of civilized warfare. Take a close look at the design of a Lee Enfield (and P-13 / 14, '03 Springfield, etc.) butt for a glimpse into the thinking of the day.

There is an old line about some early 20th Century military rifles:

"The Germans built a hunting rifle, the Americans built a target rifle and the British built a battle rifle".

[eggwelder]

Kynamo (Kynoch - UK manufacture) were manufacturing MkVII with flat based bullets.

if you reload, careful with that Kynoch stuff, primer cups have two holes, not one centre one. new depriming pin is about $8.00.