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Thread: 1905 target(?) Ross:JoeSalter

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  1. #1
    Contributing Member AGB-1's Avatar
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    1905 target(?) Ross:JoeSalter


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    Member vykkagur's Avatar
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    I wonder how much it sold for? He typifies it as "crude"; the only thing that looks crude to me, other than the lack of bluing on the action, is the farm gate buttplate. Unfinished would be a more accurate description. Perhaps he's referring to the internals, which we can't see in these photos. The "parts only" crack is just to indemnify the seller from liability because of the unknown manufacture. I'd certainly love to have gotten my hands on it.

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    There were a few 7.62mm target rifles made up in the 1960s and perhaps early 70s. I would guess that a MkII** was used as the basis here as they had the reputation for the highest accuracy; probably because WWI prevented the MkIII from being used in major competitions.
    The horizontally locking lugs are believed by some to favour accuracy, as opposed to the vertically locking MkIII, Mauser etc.
    The barrel looks like a Sportco or perhaps Schultz & Larsen type; I can't be sure.
    "Deer-stalking would be a very fine sport if only the deer had guns." W. S. Gilbert.

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    Advisory Panel tiriaq's Avatar
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    FWIW, it is a Sportco front sight base. I think a Sportco barrel would have enough meat to thread for a II** action.
    Yes, when the rules changed allowing non-issue pattern rifles for competition, there were all sorts of rifles made up. The practice was to use a Lee Enfield based rifle for long range because of the compensation, and a front lugged rifle for the shorter ranges.
    Right now, Switzers has one built up on a P'13 action.
    As projects go, there are lots of bubba'd Rosses, Lees, Enfields, Mausers, etc. that can be had cheap.
    I can see a seller being cautious about advertising a rifle like this one, because heaven only knows who did what.
    A chap I know sold a friend a M1895 Winchester barrelled to .303. Barrel didn't wobble in the receiver because of the epoxy. The cases looked odd; whatever had been used as a reamer wasn't ground to correct shape.

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    Member vykkagur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiriaq View Post
    I can see a seller being cautious about advertising a rifle like this one, because heaven only knows who did what.
    Oh, I don't fault him for covering his posterior - as long as his negative appraisal is reflected in the price. That makes it a better deal for a buyer like me, especially where I live within driving distance of this seller, so I could examine before purchase and make my own judgment. A rifle like this is ideal for my current project, since I can make a custom sporter to suit my taste. I could NEVER chop up an intact historical artifact; there's a special section in Hell for those who do. I won't even mill the ears off a P14.

    Quote Originally Posted by tiriaq View Post
    The practice was to use a Lee Enfield based rifle for long range because of the compensation....
    I'm unfamiliar with competition rules, not being a competitor. If I may ask, what exactly is meant by "compensation", and how does it make a Lee-Enfield preferable for long-range work?

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    Advisory Panel tiriaq's Avatar
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    Compensation was the combination of velocity variation of indifferent issue ball ammunition and the vibration of the Lee Enfield barrel. Velocity variation coupled with vertical barrel vibration resulted in vertically oval groups at shorter ranges, but round groups at long range.
    So, as long as ho-hum issue ball was supplied, a lot of competitors would shoot two rifles, one for long range the other for short.
    Once ammunition was no longer issued, the Lee Enfields disappeared from competition.

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    Member vykkagur's Avatar
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    Thanks, tiriaq. I learn more every day I scan this forum!

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    Advisory Panel Lee Enfield's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Surpmil View Post
    There were a few 7.62mm target rifles made up in the 1960s and perhaps early 70s. I would guess that a MkII** was used as the basis here as they had the reputation for the highest accuracy; probably because WWI prevented the MkIII from being used in major competitions.
    The horizontally locking lugs are believed by some to favour accuracy, as opposed to the vertically locking MkIII, Mauser etc.
    The barrel looks like a Sportco or perhaps Schultz & Larsen type; I can't be sure.
    it's not a MkII** judging by the bolt safety - the bolt appears to be for the earlier "button" style safety, and the safety itself looks like it may be an extended button style rather than a "flag" type.
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    Agreed. That said, it could be a receiver from a Mk II** and a bolt from an earlier pattern Mk II or even a sporter. It is after all a bitser so anything goes..............

    Ed

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    Quote Originally Posted by boltaction View Post
    Agreed. That said, it could be a receiver from a Mk II** and a bolt from an earlier pattern Mk II or even a sporter. It is after all a bitser so anything goes..............

    Ed
    It was a good spot by Lee Enfield, but I just can't see anyone trying to fit a 7.62mm barrel with anything but the barrel thread in MkII**!

    Never say never, but you'd have to say "why?" !

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