+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 11

Thread: Issue Balll Ammo

Click here to increase the font size Click here to reduce the font size
  1. #1
    Legacy Member ArtPahl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Last On
    03-22-2024 @ 10:51 AM
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    192
    Local Date
    03-28-2024
    Local Time
    09:58 AM

    Issue Balll Ammo

    About 15 years ago, a friend became interested in WWII military rifles, namely, M1icon's. He acquired 3 of them; CMPicon and elsewhere. He got some of the Greek ball ammo from the CMP. In his quest for US ammo, he came across an individual with several hundred headstamped LC68. The gent also had a Smith Corona 03-A3 and wanted to sell the lot as a package deal for $800. My friend didn't want the rifle but reluctantly (!!) agreed. We fired some of the ammo in both his M1's and his A3 and it is slow--averaging 2560 fps and with wide extreme spreads averaging 111 fps for 5-shot strings. It would not function my Springfield M1--the last shot would eject but the clip would stay in the rifle. The Greek stuff ran 2700 fps +/- depending on the rifle. I am curious as to what this Viet Nam era ammo was intended for. It seems obvious it was for vintage weapons, possibly for ARVN troops but, with it this slow, operation of machine guns, as well as M1's would be marginal. I finally pulled the bullets on 300 rounds, dumped the powder and reloaded them with 50 gr. of IMR4895 bringing the velocity up to 2720 fps and the extreme spread down to 81 fps. Any knowledge or opinions?
    Information
    Warning: This is a relatively older thread
    This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

  2. # ADS
    Friends and Sponsors
    Join Date
    October 2006
    Location
    Milsurps.Com
    Posts
    All Threads
    A Collector's View - The SMLE Short Magazine Lee Enfield 1903-1989. It is 300 8.5x11 inch pages with 1,000+ photo’s, most in color, and each book is serial-numbered.  Covering the SMLE from 1903 to the end of production in India in 1989 it looks at how each model differs and manufacturer differences from a collecting point of view along with the major accessories that could be attached to the rifle. For the record this is not a moneymaker, I hope just to break even, eventually, at $80/book plus shipping.  In the USA shipping is $5.00 for media mail.  I will accept PayPal, Zelle, MO and good old checks (and cash if you want to stop by for a tour!).  CLICK BANNER to send me a PM for International pricing and shipping. Manufacturer of various vintage rifle scopes for the 1903 such as our M73G4 (reproduction of the Weaver 330C) and Malcolm 8X Gen II (Unertl reproduction). Several of our scopes are used in the CMP Vintage Sniper competition on top of 1903 rifles. Brian Dick ... BDL Ltd. - Specializing in British and Commonwealth weapons Specializing in premium ammunition and reloading components. Your source for the finest in High Power Competition Gear. Here at T-bones Shipwrighting we specialise in vintage service rifle: re-barrelling, bedding, repairs, modifications and accurizing. We also provide importation services for firearms, parts and weapons, for both private or commercial businesses.
     

  3. #2
    Legacy Member Neal Myers's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Last On
    06-07-2023 @ 08:25 PM
    Posts
    474
    Local Date
    03-28-2024
    Local Time
    09:58 AM
    My opinion only: By 1968, the only use for M2 ball was in putting together tracer linked machine gun belts. The US military had no need for "down loaded" .30-06 ammo. A few thousand M1903's & variants had been sold by the Director of Civilian Marksmanship in the early '60's, but I don't recall seeing any vintage rifle matches.

    My guess is that you saw the effects of storing ammo in a hot attic for several years.

  4. Avoid Ads - Become a Contributing Member - Click HERE
  5. #3
    Legacy Member steveu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Last On
    03-24-2024 @ 05:18 PM
    Location
    Texas, USA
    Posts
    81
    Local Date
    03-28-2024
    Local Time
    07:58 AM
    The extreme spread is probably caused by the case weights varying. I have some LC64 in 7.62 that I sort by weight to get the groups smaller. It's not match ammo, but good enough for plinking or new shooters.
    Remember, the cases for that ball ammo were produced on a couple of different machines and then dumped into a bin together before they were loaded.

    FWIW,
    Steve

  6. #4
    Contributing Member RASelkirk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Last On
    11-30-2023 @ 06:44 PM
    Location
    Port Neches TX, intersection of Hurricane Alley and Refinery Road
    Age
    70
    Posts
    460
    Real Name
    Russell Selkirk
    Local Date
    03-28-2024
    Local Time
    07:58 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by Neal Myers View Post
    ...My guess is that you saw the effects of storing ammo in a hot attic for several years.
    For real? I've got a couple hundred rounds up there, 145° at times in the summer. Stored there for lack of room under A/C, but I can find room for sure if this is the case.

    Russ

  7. #5
    Legacy Member jond41403's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Last On
    @
    Location
    Tn
    Posts
    511
    Real Name
    Jon dale
    Local Date
    03-28-2024
    Local Time
    09:58 AM
    Yes, an attic is less than an ideal place to store ammunition. Basements are not good either unless they are temperature and moisture controlled. The rule I always use for firearms or ammunition is, if I'm comfortable, they are comfortable, but I store all my items in living space
    Last edited by jond41403; 11-25-2019 at 11:35 PM.
    "good night Chesty, Wherever You Are"

  8. #6
    Advisory Panel browningautorifle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Last On
    Today @ 09:56 AM
    Location
    Victoria BC
    Posts
    29,836
    Real Name
    Jim
    Local Date
    03-28-2024
    Local Time
    06:58 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by jond41403 View Post
    I store all my items in living space
    Agreed, same here and always have. There are regulations regarding ammo storage in the military and many guys don't realize. We had to adhere to some very strict storage, or ammo gets rotated out and destroyed. Have a read sometime and see... My ammo is in my shop, which was a family room when I bought this house.
    Regards, Jim

  9. The Following 2 Members Say Thank You to browningautorifle For This Useful Post:


  10. #7
    Legacy Member old tanker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Last On
    Yesterday @ 10:13 AM
    Location
    Fort Knox, KY
    Age
    74
    Posts
    347
    Real Name
    Emil
    Local Date
    03-28-2024
    Local Time
    09:58 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by browningautorifleicon View Post
    Agreed, same here and always have. There are regulations regarding ammo storage in the military and many guys don't realize. We had to adhere to some very strict storage, or ammo gets rotated out and destroyed. Have a read sometime and see... My ammo is in my shop, which was a family room when I bought this house.
    Proper storage is the key. We fired massive amounts of WW2 dated .50 cal during tank gunnery training in Germanyicon in the Seventies. It all functioned like it has been made last week. The only time it caused any hassle was when range conditions were so dry tracers were restricted and pulling them from the belts was a PITA.

  11. #8
    Advisory Panel browningautorifle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Last On
    Today @ 09:56 AM
    Location
    Victoria BC
    Posts
    29,836
    Real Name
    Jim
    Local Date
    03-28-2024
    Local Time
    06:58 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by old tanker View Post
    range conditions were so dry tracers were restricted and pulling them from the belts was a PITA.
    Did that many times in the prairies too. Kind of took the fun out of shooting MG... I also shot WW2 dated .50 in Yakima in the early '80,s we'd purchased from the US sources and it was ball, trace, AP. All went fine.
    Regards, Jim

  12. #9
    Legacy Member Jeremy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Last On
    11-27-2023 @ 09:40 PM
    Location
    NC
    Age
    52
    Posts
    22
    Local Date
    03-28-2024
    Local Time
    08:58 AM
    The late 60s was some of the worst years for M2 ball IMHO. Too many other things going on then they had to step up and start making it again including using different powder CMR-100 IIRC. None of it compares to WW2/KW era ammo for velocity.

  13. Thank You to Jeremy For This Useful Post:


  14. #10
    Legacy Member Sunray's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Last On
    03-29-2021 @ 03:01 PM
    Location
    London, Ontario
    Posts
    1,053
    Local Date
    03-28-2024
    Local Time
    09:58 AM
    "...averaging 2560 fps..." Sounds like deteriorated powder. I'm wondering if it may have been reloads. Current start loads of IMR3031 run 2697 FPS. An 'LC' head stamp doesn't really mean much. Just a WHAG though.
    The absolute best .303 Ball I've ever fired was 1944 vintage DA. Fired in about 1981ish. It made the crappy IVI we got later look Chinese.
    "...By 1968, the only use for M2 ball was..." Nope. U.S. National Guard still used M1icon Rifles and .30 M2 ammo. The Kent State shootings happened in 1970. The Ohio National Guard were carrying "loaded" M1 Rifles.
    "...if I'm comfortable..." As daft as it sounds, that could not be more accurate.
    Spelling and Grammar count!

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. British issue ammo only good for 6 months in Afghanistan ?
    By Kev G in forum Milsurps General Discussion Forum
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 04-10-2013, 02:31 PM
  2. Guns and Ammo Surplus Firearms, latest and LAST issue out
    By Aragorn243 in forum Milsurps General Discussion Forum
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 01-02-2013, 11:54 PM
  3. Latest Issue of Guns and Ammo Surplus Firearms is on the Stands
    By Aragorn243 in forum Milsurps General Discussion Forum
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 08-17-2011, 01:58 PM
  4. The CMP Rifle/Ammo Resale Issue - longish
    By DJG in forum M1 Garand/M14/M1A Rifles
    Replies: 22
    Last Post: 04-07-2009, 08:53 AM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Raven Rocks