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Thread: Jap 7.7 Ammo...Safe to Shoot?

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    Member 728shooter's Avatar
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    Jap 7.7 Ammo...Safe to Shoot?

    Friend of mine has some original military surplus Jap 7.7 ammo. Some are loose rounds, but he also has numerous charger clips of 30 rounds each, which I assume is meant for loading into a machine gun. Ammo looks relatively clean with no corrosion anywhere. I saw no head-stamp on any of the rounds I looked at, so there is no way to identify as to when or where it was made.



    I recall reading that the Arisakaicon receiver was one of, if not the strongest receiver of all war-era military rifles made. I also have heard that MG ammo was usually loaded hotter than that which was intended for rifle use only. That being said;
    1) Is any of this ammo safe to shoot?
    2) Is the MG ammo safe to shoot in an Arisaka type 99 rifle?

    Appreciate any & all comments on this. I can get it for a fraction of what commercial ammo is selling for but if it won't work, then its not such a good deal...

    Thanks, --728shooter

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    Really Senior Member bob q's Avatar
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    If it is machine gun ammo , it can be a different 7.7mm cartridge . It will be semi-rimmed and will not fit in a rifle . If it is rifle ammo in strippers it is worth a lot more as collector ammo than shooter ammo . There is new made ammo that would be a better choice for shooting .

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    Advisory Panel Surpmil's Avatar
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    At this distance of time I suggest it would be interesting to film the firing of such rare(?) ammo, both from rifles and MGs. That is literally a historical experience now, and it would be interesting to at least some people to know how if any the sound differed from .303 MkVII.
    "Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened." W.L.S.C..

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    Japanese WWII ammo for the rifles etc was as far as I know never head stamped they usually have 3 stakes on the primer though.

    From Wikipedia;
    Design
    While the round chambered by the Arisakaicon rifle used a rimless case, rimmed and semi-rimmed variants were produced for use in some Japanese machine guns. This machine gun ammunition is more powerful, and the altered rim is meant to prevent it from being chambered in a rifle.

    Japanese ammunition
    All Japanese military ammunition used gilding metal jackets for the bullets on ball and the Pentaerythritol tetranitrate (PETN)-filled flat-tipped explosive incendiary, cupro-nickel jackets for tracer and phosphorus incendiary and a brass bullet with steel core for armor-piercing. The bullet type was signified by a colored band over the case mouth.

    Bullet Jacket Marking Code Description
    Ball gilding-metal Pink or Salmon ring jacketed lead-core bullet
    Armor-Piercing - Black ring brass bullet with a steel core
    Tracer cupro-nickel Green ring pyrotechnic core in a lead bullet
    Incendiary cupro-nickel Magenta ring white phosphorus core in a lead envelope
    High Explosive gilding-metal Purple ring PETN core in a flat-tipped lead envelope
    Late war ammunition can still be encountered.
    Last edited by CINDERS; 12-12-2019 at 07:58 AM.

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    Japanese ammo

    My cousin served in the USMC during WW2 and sent back to my father and uncle two Type 99 rifles chambered for the 7,7mm. At young age, I save my money and bought Norma 7,7 Jap cartridges. later on I bought RCBS loading dies and was able to reload the Norma 7,7mm many times. Others saved money and formed 7,7mm from 30-06. I would never even consider shooting original Japaneseicon cartridges, not worth the risk and they belong in collections.

    I also have a 7,7 Japanese rimmed cartridge from WW2, this cartridge was designed for the Japanese Lewis machine gun, not only did they copy the weapon but also the 303 cartridge. Also interesting is that the Japanese 7,7 rimmed will chamber in a Lee Enfield Rifleicon (I tried it) I would never fire a 7,7 rimmed in any Lee Enfield but I think it would work out. My photo shows a 7,7 Jap on far right

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    Really Senior Member AZPhil's Avatar
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    If it is for a type 92. On brass strips , Bob is correct and it will be rimless and not for the type 99 rifle. It was made to be used on their automatic weapons and will be a hotter round. With that being said. I used to shot surplus Germanicon, Japaneseicon and Britishicon ammo in the 80's. Now I see how much folks are asking for these as a collectors item!!
    You might just want to sell or keep for your own collection and buy some Privi rounds to shoot!!

    Semper Fi
    Phil

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    The information of where and when it was made was on a paper label on the waxed linen cardboard box the brass stripper came in.
    As had been stated, the Japaneseicon had More than one 7.7
    7.7 semi rimmed Is loaded hotter and the Japanese put the rim on it to prevent it from being mistaken as 7.7 rimless. They did not want the MG ammo being used in rifles, i would have to agree. While you can use it if you angle and dangle it into the chamber, doesnt mean you should. While there can be debates about the strength of an action and metallurgy, realistically a type 99 is not designed for that ammo.
    There are options out there for 7.7 Graf usually has some loaded in PPU brass. Hornady occasionally puts some out there. I do not recommend PCI out of indiana. Or you can load it yourself if you want to get into that but based on the fact that you have is really a collectors item and not designed for a type 99 any how, i would hang on to it. Besides it is not like they japanese are making that any more right?

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    Really Senior Member Sunray's Avatar
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    "...original military surplus Jap 7.7 ammo..." Collector stuff. Not shooting stuff.
    Rummage around here for head stamp ID. Headstamp Codes - International Ammunition Association
    No head stamp usually means it's not milsurp. ALL military's are and were identification crazy.
    Midway shows Norma 174 grain SP, 7.7 Jap at $39.99 per 20. Currently on Back order, of course. Graf's lists only hunting ammo too. 180 grain SP Made specifically for Graf's using Norma brass and Prvi bullets at $33.99 per 20. And Precision Cartridge brand, 150 grain SP, at $31.99 per 20.
    Dies etc are readily available too.
    Spelling and Grammar count!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunray View Post
    "...original military surplus Jap 7.7 ammo..." Collector stuff. Not shooting stuff.
    Rummage around here for head stamp ID. Headstamp Codes - International Ammunition Association
    No head stamp usually means it's not milsurp. ALL military's are and were identification crazy.
    Midway shows Norma 174 grain SP, 7.7 Jap at $39.99 per 20. Currently on Back order, of course. Graf's lists only hunting ammo too. 180 grain SP Made specifically for Graf's using Norma brass and Prvi bullets at $33.99 per 20. And Precision Cartridge brand, 150 grain SP, at $31.99 per 20.
    Dies etc are readily available too.
    The vast majority of WW2 Japaneseicon T92 and T99 7.7 ammo had no headstamp.
    One exception is Type 99 rounds attributed to the Tokyo Army Arsenal that have markings that looks sorta like (o), thought to denote experimental ammo.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunray View Post
    No head stamp usually means it's not milsurp. ALL military's are and were identification crazy.
    Wrong as usual, I have an original clip of 7.7 and 6.5 also and neither have headstamps on any of them...nor markings on the clip.
    Regards, Jim

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