+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 14

Thread: Last stand of the Krag as a battle rifle

Click here to increase the font size Click here to reduce the font size
  1. #1
    Legacy Member jon_norstog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Last On
    11-01-2021 @ 12:41 AM
    Location
    Portland, Oregon
    Age
    78
    Posts
    582
    Local Date
    03-29-2024
    Local Time
    06:00 AM

    Last stand of the Krag as a battle rifle

    I put this up on the Culvericon site after returning from a long visit to Norway last summer. Here goes

    "The last Norwegianicon forces to surrender was the Telemark Infantry Regiment, an ad-hoc unit about 300 strong, organized and armed by Second Lt. Tor Hannevig, composed of a mix of regulars and Telemark hunters and farmers. They blocked the communications between Oslo and Bergen operating in the high country my family is from. They were never defeated, but gave up or went underground after the rest of the Norwegian military surrendered or disbanded. There isn’t much in English about this action, and everything I could find on the internet is word-for-word cut and paste identical. Wikipedia cites one source and it’s in Norwegian. There may be veterans still alive. Anyway here goes.

    Once the Germans got moving, they rolled up the Norwegian forces pretty fast and the command structure broke down. Lt. Hannevig was pretty much on his own, I think – or he may have been acting under orders of a rapidly-disappearing command. He managed to requisition a large quantity of weapons, including Kragicon rifles, Madsen SMGs and Colt machine guns, as well as trench mortars and explosives. It was enough that he would have had to have manpower and transport to move the stuff. So I’m thinking at least some of the regulars under his command chose to stay with him and continue the fight. Norwegian volunteers had been just showing up for battles with their own weapons if they had them, or asking to be issued rifles and ammo; the extra stuff was probably in anticipation of a good volunteer turnout.

    He formed the Telemark Regiment and set them to work blocking the main road from Oslo, through Telemark, to Bergen. This is rough country and there was one road through it. They conducted ambushes and blew up bridges along a forty-mile stretch of road from Vinje to Vagsli, also blocking the route from the canal port at Dalen to Vinje. This wasn’t just harassment; it was thought likely that the Britishicon and Frenchicon would land major forces somewhere in southern Norway and holding the road would block German communications and prevent them concentrating forces against an Allied landing in the south.

    In any case the invasion of France preempted any Allied action in Norway and the Germans brought major forces to bear on the Telemark Regimant. There was a pitched battle from May3-5. Wikipedia claims the Germans suffered heavy casualties but doesn’t provide numbers. The Panzers and Stukas were brought in. The Telemark Regiment negotiated a surrender and I’m assuming had to lay down arms. This was early in the occupation; later on the Germans would have shot every last one of them. Were prisoners taken? What about the Telemark citizen volunteers? How many of the veterans of this battle went underground?

    Far as I know, this was the last infantry battle in which Krags were used as one side’s battle rifle. It was Krags vs KAR 98 Mausers. They gave as good as they got. "

    and "?Do you know what happened to the troops after the country surrendered. Were they held until wars end etc. ?"

    "It depended who they surrendered to. The Wehrmacht and professional soldier OICs, at5 least in the beginning, would disarm them. take their uniforms and let them go home. There were a lot of SS units and they might execute prisoners or not. Some people, including soldiers, got sent to camps. Some men, even whole units, got to Swedenicon and were interned.

    A lot of the soldiers and volunteers joined up with MILORG, the home team military resistance. And got ratted out by informers, captured, tortured and executed or sent to camps in Germanyicon. My cousin was in a unit put together by British intelligence; he trained in Scotland. His unit "Company Lingen," had British weapons, got their instructions from Britain, but coordinated with what was left of Milorg. They mostly stayed in the high country unless they were on an operation. "
    Information
    Warning: This is a relatively older thread
    This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

  2. The Following 5 Members Say Thank You to jon_norstog For This Useful Post:


  3. # ADS
    Friends and Sponsors
    Join Date
    October 2006
    Location
    Milsurps.Com
    Age
    2010
    Posts
    All Threads
    A Collector's View - The SMLE Short Magazine Lee Enfield 1903-1989. It is 300 8.5x11 inch pages with 1,000+ photo’s, most in color, and each book is serial-numbered.  Covering the SMLE from 1903 to the end of production in India in 1989 it looks at how each model differs and manufacturer differences from a collecting point of view along with the major accessories that could be attached to the rifle. For the record this is not a moneymaker, I hope just to break even, eventually, at $80/book plus shipping.  In the USA shipping is $5.00 for media mail.  I will accept PayPal, Zelle, MO and good old checks (and cash if you want to stop by for a tour!).  CLICK BANNER to send me a PM for International pricing and shipping. Manufacturer of various vintage rifle scopes for the 1903 such as our M73G4 (reproduction of the Weaver 330C) and Malcolm 8X Gen II (Unertl reproduction). Several of our scopes are used in the CMP Vintage Sniper competition on top of 1903 rifles. Brian Dick ... BDL Ltd. - Specializing in British and Commonwealth weapons Specializing in premium ammunition and reloading components. Your source for the finest in High Power Competition Gear. Here at T-bones Shipwrighting we specialise in vintage service rifle: re-barrelling, bedding, repairs, modifications and accurizing. We also provide importation services for firearms, parts and weapons, for both private or commercial businesses.
     

  4. #2
    Advisory Panel Surpmil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Last On
    @
    Location
    West side
    Posts
    4,651
    Local Date
    03-29-2024
    Local Time
    06:00 AM
    Somewhere in the literature on marksmanship in war I read an account of a similar "ad hoc" group of Norwegianicon rifleman who were said to have held up part of the Germanicon advance which allowed either all or part of the gold reserves or else the Royal Family to escape.

    A fine round and a fine rifle, in the hands of a fine marksman a very potent combination.
    “There are invisible rulers who control the destinies of millions. It is not generally realized to what extent the words and actions of our most influential public men are dictated by shrewd persons operating behind the scenes.”

    Edward Bernays, 1928

    Much changes, much remains the same.

  5. Avoid Ads - Become a Contributing Member - Click HERE
  6. #3
    Legacy Member jon_norstog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Last On
    11-01-2021 @ 12:41 AM
    Location
    Portland, Oregon
    Age
    78
    Posts
    582
    Local Date
    03-29-2024
    Local Time
    06:00 AM
    Thread Starter
    You are thinking of the Battle of Midtskogen, April 10, 1940. The royal family and the cabinet members, plus all the gold reserves were on the road with the Germans in pursuit. The area is in the uplands and it was still snowed in pretty well. The pursuers were a motorized column of Fallschirmjaeger and it looked pretty serious. There was a couple of squads of Royal Guards along who determined to fight a delaying action. They raised some local reserves and also welcomed civilian volunteers, mostly hunters and rifle club members. The total force was about 100, armed mostly with Krags and with two Colt machine guns.

    They set up road blocks and started shooting when the Germans arrived. The Germans shot back but couldn't move the Norwegians out of the way. It was cold and dark and things didn't go exactly as planned for either side. The Germans couldn't get through on the road and realized they would be sitting ducks if they tried to slog though in the deep snow. The man overseeing the operation, the military attache for the whole invasion, was dead and unable to exercise command of the operation. The Germans retreated to Oslo. The Norwegians left once the threat was gone.

    The Royal Family and the Government made it to Elverum and issued the Elverum Proclamation which basically put the government in the hands of its ministers, none of whom were Quisling or members of his gang.

    The Germans bombed the hell out of Elverum the next day but the Royal family and Cabinet (and the gold) were already on their way to Englandicon. For that reason the Germans could never claim they had a legitimate government working with them.

    In fact the whole Norwegianicon operation was a loss for the Germans. They had a half million troops tied up, occupying the country throughout the war. They managed to recruit about 10,000 Norwegians into the Germanicon military. Do the math.

    jn

  7. Thank You to jon_norstog For This Useful Post:


  8. #4
    Legacy Member Eaglelord17's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Last On
    Yesterday @ 08:26 AM
    Location
    Sault Ste. Marie, ON
    Posts
    1,257
    Real Name
    A.N.
    Local Date
    03-29-2024
    Local Time
    09:00 AM
    Ultimately the Kragicon is a fantastic rifle, just it wasn't as practical as a military rifle as many other options. That doesn't mean it wasn't effective though. The biggest problems being the extremely high cost to manufacture (they are so much more complex to machine than your average bolt gun such as a Mauser) and a lack of charger loading. But if your shooting at the enemy, its not like your sticking your head up firing as fast as you can, your generally firing a shot or two, ducking down, then when empty reloading. Whether or not it was by charger it still took a bit of time for the simple reason everyone's webbing wasn't really wasn't designed or optimized for speed.

    One of the biggest issues that affected most militaries especially early in the war was a lack of effective anti-armour weaponry. It doesn't really matter how good your small arms are if you can't stop that tank.

  9. #5
    Legacy Member jon_norstog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Last On
    11-01-2021 @ 12:41 AM
    Location
    Portland, Oregon
    Age
    78
    Posts
    582
    Local Date
    03-29-2024
    Local Time
    06:00 AM
    Thread Starter
    It's true about the armor - there wasn't much way to fight it. I don't think they knew about Molotov Cocktails ... As far as small arms: after the Germans put down the Milorg, armed resistance was carried out more and more by Britishicon-trained Norwegianicon commandos. They were provided with Enfields, Sten guns, and assorted other British gear that was smuggled or air-dropped. You can read about it in my cousin's book, "Skis Against the Atom" They lived a tough life between operations, holed up in the high country.

  10. #6
    Advisory Panel green's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Last On
    12-22-2023 @ 08:18 PM
    Posts
    445
    Local Date
    03-29-2024
    Local Time
    08:00 AM
    There was a movie made in Norwayicon about Hannevig called "The Last Lieutenant".

  11. #7
    Advisory Panel Surpmil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Last On
    @
    Location
    West side
    Posts
    4,651
    Local Date
    03-29-2024
    Local Time
    06:00 AM
    The sinking of the Blücher is the incident from the invasion that sticks in my mind. I see it is also credited with being a factor in the escape of the Royal Family. It is a curious thing that both cruisers named Blücher were sunk in action, and three Blücher brothers were killed on the same day in 1941. And the last brother was killed accidentally in 1944.
    “There are invisible rulers who control the destinies of millions. It is not generally realized to what extent the words and actions of our most influential public men are dictated by shrewd persons operating behind the scenes.”

    Edward Bernays, 1928

    Much changes, much remains the same.

  12. #8
    Legacy Member jon_norstog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Last On
    11-01-2021 @ 12:41 AM
    Location
    Portland, Oregon
    Age
    78
    Posts
    582
    Local Date
    03-29-2024
    Local Time
    06:00 AM
    Thread Starter
    Funny you shoud mention that. I spent a couple days at Oscarsborg, the 19th-century shore battery that foiled the Germanicon surprise invasion of Oslo. I did a lengthy post on that episode on the Culvericon forum when I got back from Norwayicon. I'll put it up over here, maybe on the general discussion forum. It's a hell of a story.

    jn

  13. Thank You to jon_norstog For This Useful Post:


  14. #9
    Advisory Panel Surpmil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Last On
    @
    Location
    West side
    Posts
    4,651
    Local Date
    03-29-2024
    Local Time
    06:00 AM
    I read somewhere years ago that the Gestapo detachment being sent to Norway went down the ship, or most of them did. The other thing that sticks is that the Germans stopped using Norwegianicon bus drivers for transporting their troops after a few decided to drive over cliffs with their passengers.
    “There are invisible rulers who control the destinies of millions. It is not generally realized to what extent the words and actions of our most influential public men are dictated by shrewd persons operating behind the scenes.”

    Edward Bernays, 1928

    Much changes, much remains the same.

  15. #10
    Legacy Member jon_norstog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Last On
    11-01-2021 @ 12:41 AM
    Location
    Portland, Oregon
    Age
    78
    Posts
    582
    Local Date
    03-29-2024
    Local Time
    06:00 AM
    Thread Starter
    The Blucher had a row of portholes in its sides! It was a combination heavy cruiser and cruise ship, and it was packed with mid-level bureaucrats and gestapo, in addition to its regular crew. No one is certain how many went down with the ship, perhaps as few as 800, maybe 1,500. The fish and the crabs had a feast. I never heard of bus drivers going off a cliff, but if it happened I'm sure the driver would have bailed out.

    It was only 35 years since Norwayicon got its independence from Swedenicon. The resistance is the thing that really made Norway as a country, the way the Revolution made America.

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Greatest bolt action battle rifle in history...
    By amadeus76 in forum Milsurps General Discussion Forum
    Replies: 109
    Last Post: 07-26-2018, 10:28 PM
  2. Replies: 8
    Last Post: 10-31-2016, 01:55 PM
  3. Canadian Long Branch swift training rifle target stand.
    By Bigedac in forum Milsurps General Discussion Forum
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 08-28-2016, 05:31 PM
  4. Battle rifle finish
    By sdh1911 in forum Gunsmithing for Old Milsurps
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 03-30-2011, 09:20 AM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Raven Rocks