No5 using No4 forearm question

[BurtonP]

Hi all,
I've searched the forum, but so far to no avail. In Skennerton's tome there is a reference to an 09/'44 ROF Fazakerley No5 that they examined that had an adapted No4 Forearm on it. Presumably as built and not a post-war make-do. I can't find a pic of it though. I've seen other references to this occurring as well.

Now the reason I am curious about this is that I have a 09/'44 ROF Fazakerley No5, that initially had a No4 forearm fitted. I restored it to what I thought was the "proper" forearm, I'm just wondering if I've made a terrible mistake. Can anyone point me to any pics of one of these No5s? I'm not interested in the ones changed in civvy use, I'm talking about from the factory (if they exist).

Cheers,
Burton

Information

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[NORTHOF60]

My Fazakerley No. 5 also has a modified No. 4 forestock. Unfortunately, the poor bitch looks as though she's been boiled alive - no marking on the stock and you can barely read the electro-penciled markings on the receiver. However, the bore is super.

[Alan de Enfield]

Can anyone point me to any pics of one of these No5s? I'm not interested in the ones changed in civvy use, I'm talking about from the factory (if they exist).

You have missed out another possibility :

As it left the factory
As it was modified by MOD Armourers in Malaya
In Civilian service.

Peter Laidler has said a number of times that when he was in Malaya re-furbishing the No5's they could not wait for parts to come in so would often rebuild using No4 parts (everything from the action to the forend)

The forend would be cut down and the semi-circular barrel channel plugged.

You could actually end up with a No5 with a No4 action (body), a No4 Bolt and a No 4 (cut down) forend.

Extract from one of his Posts in July 2008

I think I mentioned earlier that when we were doing the big Crown Agents FTR programme, it was priced (so I was told) that if 70 came in, 70 went out and if some were ZF’d (scrap) then they’d be replaced from our ANZUK (I think this was Aust, NZ and UK stockholdings) mobilization stores from the huge …., and I mean HUGE Ordnance stockpiles close by at Johore Bahru. So we would cannibalise No5’s and if necessary, send them out with No4 bodies.

[BurtonP]

[QUOTE
As it left the factory
As it was modified by MOD Armourers in Malaya
In Civilian service.
[/QUOTE]

Would there be any way to tell which of these possibilities is likely? My No5 did not have the barrel band channel infilled, so I think it must have been modified in civvy use. I attach a pic of it as purchased (with some other gunshow purchases). As you can see, it also had a No4 stock.

[browningautorifle]

It looks like yours has simply has a #4 butt fitted and perhaps just a whacked off #4 lower, looks to be a bit short. These guys can measure one or perhaps that info is still here as we've talked about this before. The band location is in question too. The upper would be different length from the #4 compared to the #5 I think?

I add a pic here to illustrate the length of the forestock compared to barrel length... The mag is hanging out and the picture is from WarRellicsForum... More, I'd say your handguard retaining ring is the wrong one as well, looks to high and proud. The forestocks are different lines as well, a #4 cut down I think on yours. Top handguard looks right though.

[BurtonP]

Thanks Jim,
That's pretty much my assessment too. Glad to have it confirmed. Might have to swap the barrel band if it's not right though.
This is how mine looks now.

[Havenot]

I do know that in times past Numerich Arms/Gunparts offered replacement wood for the No.5 fabricated from No.4 wood. Don't know if Numerich fabricated these in-house or sourced from elsewhere.

As rough as some of the Century imported carbines were...I wouldn't be surprised if Century Arms may have retro-fitted some parts metal or wood.

A friend of mine bought one and the butt-plate rubber was amazingly rotted as were the butt-plate parts(rusted to the degree the sling loop fell off!). Wood was more or less intact. I found and bought a complete set of original No.5 wood with butt-plate on e-bay and we used the butt-plate parts to 'fix' his carbine.

Just saying that parts get replaced on Enfields...even in Oklahoma!