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Thread: M1 Garand Clip Hard to Seat

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  1. #1
    Legacy Member Der Jagar's Avatar
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    M1 Garand Clip Hard to Seat

    Not long a ago I purchased from an estate sale a July, 42 Springfield M1icon Garand. All proper Draw numbers on parts, right stock markings, really good shape. Does have a 1946 barrel with clean bore, nice rifling. Bought late November, haven't had much time or good weather to fire. Did run through around 48 rds after purchasing. Really good price. The only problem I had was difficulty in seating a loaded enbloc clip. I could seat it approx. 3/4 of the way and had to really push hard to fully seat. Really hard!The first round didn't want to chamber very easily without helping it. All remaining rounds would chamber without problems. All firing, brass ejection, and the enbloc clip ejecting were no problem. I noticed that the rails at the bottom portion of the clip rails seemed to have a lot of hard grease and debris which I thought maybe causing the hard clip seating. I was using clips that I've used with my March, 55 Springfield M1 that worked fine with that rifle. Just haven't gotten around to messing with it until last weekend, got it all lubed up today and same problem persists.

    Stripped the M1 down with exception of the trigger group. All parts appeared normal. Super cleaning job performed.

    1) Rounds all loaded correctly. PMC ammo that I've used in my other M1 with no problem.
    2) The follower will move up and down with no problem. Will bottom out with no felt
    obstruction.
    3) There doesn't appear to be any obstruction with the follower rod.
    4) No other apparent/seen obstructions with any parts.
    5) No burrs in receiver rails that the enbloc clip rides in. I did use a fine round and flat stone
    on the rails.
    6) Bullet guide appears ok with no interference seen with the follower arm.
    7) Clips that I've used in my 1955 M1 were used that always worked in that rifle.
    8) I polished the sides of the clips with a fine emery cloth where they ride in the receiver
    rails.
    9) After through cleaning of all parts and relubing, the problem still persists.

    I checked the above items after checking a online M1 Garand trouble shooting site. I'm puzzled as to what is causing the problem. The gunshop owner that did the FFL transfer advised as far as he knew the M1 worked as designed, but no way of contacting owner. Any ideas and help/suggestions very much appreciated. Gotta be something I'm not seeing or aware of.
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    Legacy Member Hcompton79's Avatar
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    Does the clip with no ammo in it bottom out with no issues?

    PPU .30-06 has some issues in M1icon clips because the extractor groove is shorter (European holdover), not sure if PMC is similar. The solution with the PPU ammo is to load the clips by inserting cartridges, and then retracting slightly until the extractor groove slips into the ridge in the clips.

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    Contributing Member Steve762's Avatar
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    Der Jagar, Several thoughts. Since you have an M1icon already I must assume that you know how to load M1 clips with ammo.
    -Remember, all rounds must bottom out in the clip and the first round in the clip is on the right. Will work on the left but easier to load for a right handed person if the first round is on the right.
    -High rounds will rub on the receiver/trigger group and be hard to load. Use US produced clips ie. SA BW etc. Korean clips sometimes cause problems.
    -It is normal for the first round NOT to chamber in new or highly parked clips. A bump on the op rod to get the first round off the clip is common.
    -Get a new clip and with dummies or live ammo on the range reload the same clip several times. Inspect clip for rub marks. You may have a burr somewhere on the receiver or trigged group.
    -Not all clips load as easily as others. That is why old M1 match shooters had clips that loaded easily. Check out Youtube for how to load the M1 rifle videos. The US Army training films are the best.
    -Lastly, When loading a clip do not pull the op rod back with the loading hand so that it unlatches the op rod so that you have to hold the op rod back under spring tension while loading.
    Regards.
    Last edited by Steve762; 03-25-2020 at 03:50 AM.

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    Contributing Member Sarge1998's Avatar
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    All good info previously, I will ask you to take you trigger group assembly and check the function of the clip ejector spring, if it's original it may have failed, though limited does it still function?

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    Legacy Member AFJon's Avatar
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    Here's and image of what the guys are talking about WRT the clips

    Former Prairie Submarine Commander
    "To Err is Human, To Forgive is Divine. Neither of Which is SAC Policy."

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    Advisory Panel browningautorifle's Avatar
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    I had over 100 clips for M1icon so if I ran into this I just switched clips. I used US issue, WW2 as much as possible and only ran into this with black park Greek clips. I don't think it's as technical as all that... Change clips and sell the offender.
    Regards, Jim

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  13. #7
    Legacy Member Der Jagar's Avatar
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    Thanks for the replies. First off I apologize ref a mistake on original post. The ammo I was using is PPU--not PMC. Late nite written post, do have PMC ammo also but not '06.
    1) Clips are loaded correctly, all rounds seated to bottom of clip, top round on right side when loading. All bullet tips even.
    2) Empty clip will drop all the way to bottom with no hesitation.
    3) Ejector spring appears ok when viewing and operating with trigger group off rifle. It tosses empty clip high with ping. I did check it as much as possible.
    4) Also, the receiver isn't a pre-cut, rewelded one.
    5) It did cross my mind that maybe WW2 area receivers may have had tighter tolerances than Korean era ones, but have never read anything of that to be. The thought of the enbloc clips I have may not match up to early WW2 made rifles crossed my mind also.

    The subject of the enbloc clip working ok in my '55 M1icon, but not my '42 M1 I can see possibly in the posts referencing US and foreign made one. When I bought my '55 M1 four years ago, I bought a small quantity of clips from a on-line supplier that specializes in M1 Garand parts and accessories. Being new to the game, I bought figuring if made for M1, they'd work and they did in my '55 rifle. They also had for sale marked US made WW2 era and other US made ones, but I bought a dozen of the cheaper ones for what 3-4 of the marked US ones cost. I did check the ones I have and on the circle on the outside of the bottom of these clips there is no letters/numbers, just a blank circle. My Poyer M1 Garand book indicates these are of Tiawan manufacturer. Maybe the problem of my problem.

    I'm going to do two things. 1) I'm going to try some Remington 30/06 150 grain FMJ ammo that I originally bought for my '55 M1, then realized a more specific M1 Garand '06 ammo needed to be used that was better for the Op rod and see how they fit and load in my '42 M1. I've just been shooting this ammo in my '06 Springfields. 2) Attempt to buy some US made enbloc clips with proper markings and see how they fare. In fact, I know a M1 shooter that I can first make the 50 mile rd trip drive and try some of his US made clips that I know he has. AFJon I'm going to have to figure out some of the info on your post, understand some. Thanks, nice picture info.
    I see at the bottom of this page there are other older posts ref the same thing I'm having problems with. Just skimmed them, gonna go back and read line for line.
    I'll get back with results, appreciate the posted info and any other. Thanks veddy much!!

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    Legacy Member Hcompton79's Avatar
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    There was just an article in the recent issue of the Garandicon Collector's Journal about ammo and the Garand, you aren't going to bend a Garand Op-Rod with any commercial ammo in the 150-180 grain range. IMO, the concern over "Garand specific" .30-06 is over-hyped.

    PPU, I shoot frequently in my Garand because it is low cost and good quality ammo. But, the extractor groove is shorter. The solution is to pull back slightly when loading the clips so the extractor groove catches in the clip ridge. You want about 1/16-1/8" gap between the base of the cartridge and the back of the clip.

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    Advisory Panel browningautorifle's Avatar
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    Careful when selecting clips that are supposedly USGI, as new...they could easily be brand new Chinese copies. I know for a fact they make DA clips for instance. I can't say I ever wore out a WW2 USGI clips either. Shining and edgy but still serviceable after dozens of uses.
    Regards, Jim

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    Legacy Member Der Jagar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Der Jagar View Post
    The subject of the enbloc clip working ok in my '55 M1icon, but not my '42 M1 I can see possibly in the posts referencing US and foreign made one. When I bought my '55 M1 four years ago, I bought a small quantity of clips from a on-line supplier that specializes in M1 Garand parts and accessories. Being new to the game, I bought figuring if made for M1, they'd work and they did in my '55 rifle. They also had for sale marked US made WW2 era and other US made ones, but I bought a dozen of the cheaper ones for what 3-4 of the marked US ones cost. I did check the ones I have and on the circle on the outside of the bottom of these clips there is no letters/numbers, just a blank circle. My Poyer M1 Garand book indicates these are of Tiawan manufacturer. Maybe the problem of my problem.
    OK, when I wrote this post this AM, I had to be some place, but wanted to get this posted before I left. I grabbed two of the clips I had been using and checked their backsides and couldn't see any markings. Didn't use any light or other aids. Looked like a blank circle which Poyer's M1 Garand book indicated they were of Tiawan origin. I did buy some clips from 'AmmoGarand' which the majority of them were still in the box they came in. I assumed the two I checked were from AmmoGarand. NOT! When I bought my '55 Garand via Gunbroker, the seller tossed in six clips and those were the ones I was using most. That part of my history with my '55 Garand was recalled when I started examining the clips. Wetting the back of the clips and using a light, I could see BRW 6 which indicated Borg Warner post WW2 manufacture according to Poyer's book. The stamping was covered up a lot with the packerizing, but wetting them, the stamping was readable. Checked the box of clips from AmmoGarand and they were all AEC 3 clips (Aggressive Engineering Corp).

    I did some measuring of the three factory 30/06 ammo brass I have 1) PPU 150g. FMJ (ammo designed for M1 Garand) 2) Remington UMC 150g FMJ and 3) Remington Corelokt 150g SP. I was curious about the brass dimensions as reported by Hcompton79 reference the PPU being different in the rim/groove area. ( All in inches) Both Rem brass measured 0.466 rim diameter while the PPU was 0.468--0.002 larger. Both Remingtons diameter at the base of the brass wall was 0.463, while the PPU was 0.467--0.004 larger. The diameter of the Remington's grooves were 0.406, while the PPU's was 0.413---0.007 larger. As reported by Hcompton79 the groove width of PPU ammo is shorter and it was. The Remington brass had approx. (as far as I could determine) a groove width of 0.090- 0.093, while the PPU's groove width was 0.067-0.069 making the PPU's 0.023-.0024 narrower. I could visually see the difference. With the PPU brass being a bit fatter at the base of the wall, I thought maybe that extra 'meat' might be pressing the sidewall of the clips out making them a tight fit, but they work fine in my '55 Garand. What Hcompton79 advised about the extractor groove is noted, but my '55 Garand ate up the PPU ammo like a hungry dog in a butcher shop.
    Question--even though the back of the clips indicate they are of US manufacturer, have there been any foreign (maybe Chinese) made clips with US stampings, ie counterfeit, made to look like US made?

    I tried both types Remington ammo in the same clips I had previously loaded the PPU ammo in and tried them in my '42 Garand. Same hard seating and problems with bolt chambering first round. I tired some of the AEC 3 clips with all three variety's of ammo and had the same problems, ie. hard insertion and bolt not chambering first round. It doesn't even strip the 1st, moves it ahead approx. 1/4", then I have to push on the Op Rod, even slightly lifting the point of the bullet up some. After the first round is chambered, I'll pull back on the Op rod to unload and at the same time push on the clip latch release and the clip with seven rounds will come out flying with wings. THIS makes me wonder if the Ejector Clip Spring that has been talked and written about as a possible culprit of my Garands problem could be at fault. I wouldn't think if a spring has that much power to eject a clip with seven rds could be weak. ??

    Not sure what is going on?? Would it be possible even though when I inspected all of the parts for any damage, worn areas, etc they looked fine and seemed to function while the stock, barrel/receiver, and trigger groups were separate, that once they are as a unit, something is binding. One area that I checked but couldn't see any problems when the three major goups were apart was any biding by the follower rod and the bullet guide. Once everything is together there is some binding. All above my knowledge and 'pay grade' as it's said. As I previously advised, the FFL holder that was selling the gun on behalf of the owner (estate) advised as far as he knew the gun functioned without any problems.

    Hcompton79--noted your info on loading the PPU ammo different in the clip. Will give it a shot. It's been rainy and not shooting weather here in Iowa lately, so will try when I can take the Garand out and shoot.
    AFJon---I figured out what you were referring to in your ammo/clip picture.
    Steve762---Your last comment on not holding back on the op rod handle is taken. I was doing it as loading normal with the op rod being held back with the outside of my little right hand finger and trying to push the loaded clip down with right hand thumb didn't work. I would have to hold the op rod back with right hand thumb and push the loaded clip down with pressure using my left hand thumb. Not the way its supposed to work.

    Any and all suggestions welcome. When the weather becomes better, I need to take Garand out and do some shooting vs just inserting loaded clips and ejecting. Want to see what happens. Some of the experience a lot of you have will be needed to solve this-has me frustrated. I never had been around a M1 until four years ago so I'm a fairly 'NewBe'! Thank you in advance.

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