Real or Fantasy Piece? No5 Help?

[Alan de Enfield]

I bought mine from an RFD auction house, before it was offered for sale, the auctioneer made a big 'speech' about the legality (or otherwise) of the SKN Armourers Training Aid 'rifles'. He had checked with the 3 county police forces adjacent to the auction house (Nottinghamshire, Lincolnshire and Leicestershire) and all had confirmed that in their view it was not a firearm.

It was sold (as have been all subsequent ones) as an 'off-ticket' (non-firearm) item.


I was under the impression that legislation could not be retrospectively applied.

In fact - the latest issue of the Home Office document "Guide on Firearms Licencing Law" specifically states :

"……. are not retrospective. Therefore, a gun de-activated to the old specifications prior to revisions, remains de-activated for legal purposes".


Also from the Guidance :

Section 8 of the 1988 Act is an evidential provision and does not preclude the possibility
that a firearm which has been de-activated in some other manner may also have ceased
to be a firearm within the meaning of the 1968 Act. For example, guns held by museums
that were recovered from wrecked ships and aircraft may be corroded to the point that
they cannot be fired. This should not be confused with wear or missing parts that can be
replaced. The final arbiter of whether the article fulfils the definition of a firearm at section
57(1) is a court


Section 57(1) of the act states : "A firearm is "a lethal barrelled weapon of any description from which any shot, bullet or other missile can be discharged"

"from which any shot, bullet or other missile can be discharged" has to be capable of discharging a missile either in its present state or with adaptation. To prove that a weapon is a firearm, it is essential to call evidence as to whether a bullet or missile can be discharged from the weapon or which can be adapted to discharge any missile: Grace v DPP (1989) Crim. L.R.365 where the conviction was quashed as there was no evidence that the air rifle could have been fired.

(From the Government CPS Website last updated August 2019)

[mrclark303]

Absolutely, all mine have been procured from RFD's and they certainly wouldn't risk their licence, living and liberty on the sale of a piece, if they had the slightest doubt regarding legality.

[CINDERS]

I have a collection of them, all comprehensively sectioned, totally safe and not one capable of even discharging a fart!

There in the fine print Clarky you missed it ~ Section 19 Part C) Farting and other gaseous releases by the sectioned firearm are prohibited under Clause 3.2 Depletion of the Ozone Layer

You would have to be pretty keen to section a No.5 rifle which are selling for around the $1,200/AUD here!

[Alan de Enfield]

I'm sure many will of heard of 'Industrial Archaeologists' (folks who break into old factories to take photos etc of what is left)

Here are some pictures of the Parker Hale factory several years after closing down.

There are 100's of Enfield SKN 'rifles'.

[Ovidio]

Oh my...what a shame and waste...

[Roger Payne]

It's actually Alfred J Parker's premises in Birmingham. I was there then with a pal of mine when Edna's niece & great nephew offered us the lot. Maybe I should have said yes....

but there were 19 'Chests No15' in the back garden............we left with those. Most of them are still awaiting (extensive) restoration.


I believe the issue came to a head when the police were called following sightings of local children brandishing SKN actions in the streets of the neighbourhood.

[bigduke6]

Apart from the chests Rog, you should of put your name on the machines and the attachments/tools, Tom Senior millers demand a good premium, some of the early pics of the premises show the the vertical milling attachments, these are well sort after and fetch more than the machine.

[Roger Payne]

Hi Geoff. Unfortunately Dave & I were second in, because Edna's niece had delegated the disposal of the stock & machinery. Once the family realised that the assests were being sold too cheaply they put a stop to it & we then made a visit & bought a fair amount of the remaining spares at a something like fair to both parties price. By then though, the lion's share of the stuff had already gone............some of it is still being sold on 'that internet auction site' in itty-bitty packets by the dealers in Lee Enfield spares. I'm not being critical of the person who got in first, as you can't blame them for taking up a bargain offer, but the machinery, barrels, actions & most of the spares went for a song.

[Alan de Enfield]

It's actually Alfred J Parker's premises in Birmingham.

Yes, Sorry - my mistake.

More info




Invoice and all sorts of paperwork - quotation to the MOD for No8 parts.

[mrclark303]

There in the fine print Clarky you missed it ~ Section 19 Part C) Farting and other gaseous releases by the sectioned firearm are prohibited under Clause 3.2 Depletion of the Ozone Layer

You would have to be pretty keen to section a No.5 rifle which are selling for around the $1,200/AUD here!