INFORMATION - No2 ?

[Nickjc]

Hi All - I hope this message finds you all well after a bit of a hiatus from me on the forum and in these wild times. My collecting has slowed a bit with the kids in college and what not - and collecting has taken a backseat - but I am ramping up......

Came across this in my local shop that a guy dragged in that has been sitting in a closet since the 60's or so the story goes - ' buy the gun not the story '

Completely dismounted it and the pics are as follows - looks like a No2 - bore is great - the stock disc has to be wrong as it has some Farsi on it... What do you think mostly about the markings. It looks to have been made in 1927 on the 1918 receiver etc. Looking forward to getting it to the range.

Any comments or insight is always appreciated:

Information

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[browningautorifle]

Nice looking rifle for sure, couple things I wonder about though. Shouldn't the rear sight protector be other side around? Looks to have been turned completely around. Shouldn't it have a round cocking piece?

[Nickjc]

That is me being a bonehead and installing it back backwards - dunno if it should have a round cocking piece - however it appears to be numbered the rifle....some of those stamps i have never seen before

[browningautorifle]

a round cocking piece - however it appears to be numbered the rifle....

No, just the very back piece on the bolt. They aren't numbered, just marked that they were examined. Those flat sided ones are a bit later and it may have been put on along the line. Some of these others here will be able to tell you for sure what the lineage of this one is. Nice rifle regardless, I always wanted one of the .22 models of the full sized rifles. They should shoot like a dream. I only had a #8 rifle and handled lots of #7 rifles...and of course FN with sub cal. These have never come my way.

[Buccaneer]

Shouldn't it have a round cocking piece?

Probably changed when it was converted from .303 to a .22 No 2 MkIV* rifle, it is of no real consequence.

[Roger Payne]

Speaking from memory now, but no doubt someone will put us right if I have it wrong; I think the slab-sided cocking piece was approved as a WW1 production expedient in early 1916 (January rings a bell), but the button pattern was still acceptable & continued in use well after the adoption of the new pattern. As Buccaneer suggested, it could well have been swapped at the time of conversion from .303 to .22.

[Nickjc]

Thank you all so far...i appreciate the time to educate me... i looked at the .22 sticky and that was interesting as well...

I am most intrigued by the markings ! Some i do not recognize at all...or have seen.

Also were the original barrels reamed put and lined or new barrels added...?

[Alan de Enfield]

Thank you all so far...i appreciate the time to educate me... i looked at the .22 sticky and that was interesting as well...

I am most intrigued by the markings ! Some i do not recognize at all...or have seen.

Also were the original barrels reamed put and lined or new barrels added...?

It depends exactly which model it is :

It looks like maybe a "1914 pattern Short Mk2" upgraded (modified ?) to a No2 MKIV* as the stamping fonts have obviously been applied at a different time.

If you look at the barrel muzzle, can you see any signs of a liner ?

.22 SHORT RIFLE MK III
Approved 9th August 1912 (LoC 16291) for Land Service, this rifle was made up from Converted Mk II and Mk II* SMLE rifles (which were themselves either "long" Lee-Metford or "long" Lee-Enfields converted to "short" Lees). About 11,000 conversions were done by BSA, LSA and RSAF Enfield.

.22 RF PATTERN 1914 SHORT RIFLE No. 1
A wartime trainer approved 24th May 1915 (LoC 17320) for Land Service, this rifle was also made up from Converted Mk II and Mk II* SMLE rifles (see above) by boring out the .303 barrel and inserting a .22 calibre liner inside the barrel. Conversions were done by A.G. Parker & Co. Ltd. and Wesley Richards & Co. About 427 conversions reported.

.22 RF PATTERN 1914 SHORT RIFLE No. 2
Approved 28th April 1916 (LoC 17755) for Land Service, this is the first rifle made from up from an original SMLE Mk III. Again, the .303 barrel was bored out and a .22 calibre liner inserted. Conversions were done by A.G. Parker & Co. Ltd. and Wesley Richards & Co. Some 1,743 conversions reported.

.22 RF SHORT RIFLE PATTERN 1918
Approved 10th July 1918 (LoC 21675) for Land Service, this rifle is unique in that it used a dummy .303 cartridge as a holder or conveyor for the .22 rimfire cartridge. The .22 barrel liner was soldered into place after the chamber. About 975 conversions done by W.W. Greener Co.

.22 SHORT RIFLE Mk IV
Approved 19th November 1921 (LoC 24909) for Land Service, this rifle starts out with a used SMLE Mk III or Mk III* (like the 1914 Short Rifle No. 2, above) but uses a solid, not tubed, barrel. Total number of conversions done by RSAF Enfield unknown.

RIFLE No.2 Mk IV*
Same rifle as above; just a change in nomenclature adopted in 1926. This rifle was the principal trainer for the next thirty years and was widely produced by in Britain, Australia and India. Issued in Canada, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, Ireland and India, a variety of issue and ownership marks can be found on these rifles. At least 30,000 conversions made by the various factories

[CoatiMundi]

Attachment 107610Attachment 107612Attachment 107611
Here are a few pics of the family heirloom No2 Mk4*. Just about the first gun I ever I shot. You will like shooting yours, this one is fun and accurate. The first time you fire you might think you had a dud because there is no recoil. My favorite is listening to the spent case fall into the empty magazine. I always thought it might be fun to take it to a small caliber only indoor range and enjoy the looks on people's faces when you went to shoot it!

This one spent time in India and you can see where the SHTLE III* was struck through and the new designation applied when it was converted.

[Nickjc]

It depends exactly which model it is :

It looks like maybe a "1914 pattern Short Mk2" upgraded (modified ?) to a No2 MKIV* as the stamping fonts have obviously been applied at a different time.

If you look at the barrel muzzle, can you see any signs of a liner ?

22 SHORT RIFLE Mk IV
Approved 19th November 1921 (LoC 24909) for Land Service, this rifle starts out with a used SMLE Mk III or Mk III* (like the 1914 Short Rifle No. 2, above) but uses a solid, not tubed, barrel. Total number of conversions done by RSAF Enfield unknown.

I will get a closer look but as I recall I did not see any type of potential ring indicating a bore out and a liner. But will check.

Based on your info above I took a look at RSAF Enfield markings online - and some of those match those on the rifle shown above - such as:





The odd thing is that it has a what I think is, an iraqi stock disc, that has to be incorrect and added by someone over it's life.

Assuming it is incorrect, would a plain brass disc be in that place?

Also, what marking might indicate service nation use? Is that able to be done?

Stock does have arsenal repairs but no stamping's that I can see - there is also a large HV stamp right behind the rear sight wood