Inherited M1 Carbine

[USGI]

Look inside the carrying case for a maker's mark and also a marking on the zipper. Nice originals are worth at least $75 - $100. I see SA (Springfield Armory) markings on your bayonet lug and the trigger housing. The trigger housing has the M2 cuts and is called a Type 6. I think that front sight is a Saginaw. It looks like your trigger housing attaching pin is inserted in the wrong direction. I had a Type 5 Inland operating slide with the same numbers on the bottom as yours, but with an O instead of an L. You'll probably find Inland markings inside the "box" on the slide. - Bob

[painter777]

GI Bob,
Do you see any sign of milling on the barrel: forward of the gas cylinder- to the front edge before the narrow for the front sight?
I don't, but do see milling marks on the front narrow just behind the front sight....
The lack of milling marks or any makers marks puzzles me, that along with the deep blue polished looking finish on the same area.

So is it a real USGI Barrel ?
A view of the chamber and straight on from the muzzle may rule out one of those sleeved barrels that we've seen before.
Might want to Mic the barrel to make sure it hasn't been turned down to scrub any import markings..... Sorta doubt it has been but easy to do so it can be ruled out.

The Rock gas cylinder stamp looks legit (to memory) without pulling out a loose one to compare the stamped RMC name.
Lastly......
May just be the picture but the gas piston escutcheon nut looks like it may have been parked ??



CH-P777

[GotSnlB28]

In the close up picture of the gas cylinder, I agree the cylinder looks original Rock-ola with the "globe" shaped front and RO stamping. But what is odd is where the barrel meets the gas cylinder. It's either ground or flat into the cylinder with what looks like a burr. I suspect it's either an insert or ground down.

[painter777]

For Comparison,
OP's Gas Cylinder top picture:



Picture below from known original:



Sorry about not knowing how to do side x side views or able to crop pic sizes.

PS See the piston nut on the top one? Look Parked to anyone else? Does to me....... but not sure how if it's stainless.

[browningautorifle]

PS See the piston nut on the top one? Look Parked to anyone else?

Could that be just covered with carbon from firing? It looks like it's over everything there... Try a bore brush and some oil and see if it all comes to silver again.

[USGI]

GI Bob,
Do you see any sign of milling on the barrel: forward of the gas cylinder- to the front edge before the narrow for the front sight?
I don't, but do see milling marks on the front narrow just behind the front sight....
The lack of milling marks or any makers marks puzzles me, that along with the deep blue polished looking finish on the same area.

I was in a hurry when I made that post, and needed to get back to a burn pile I had going. I noticed several things about the barrel and wanted to get back to it later. I didn't notice the dark piston nut, but did see the odd "smudge" or flat spot in front of the gas cylinder. Could even be touched up with flat black paint in those areas? I don't see milling marks and did notice the polished look on the barrel - also the question of having an insert (sometimes made from an '03 barrel) crossed my mind. I've only seen one of those in person and it was on a Rowan & Becker Carbine.

The other thing that stands out is the marks on the rear of the barrel - looks like from a barrel block or wrench that had slipped and rounded the corners a bit. This barrel may have been pulled off one of those early commercials made during a time when lot's of other GI parts were readily available to them, but only de-milled USGI Carbine barrels. Like you said, a close-up of the muzzle or one looking at the chamber area with the bolt locked back might help. I think you guys have it pretty well figured. Maybe the OP has a dial caliper and could tell us the OD of the area immediately behind the front sight?

- Bob

[Punctilious1]

Thanks again for all of your help guys!

I was able to take some more pictures and answer some questions that have been asked.

The piston nut is definitely just dirty - i wiped some carbon off of it easily. The attached picture is better and shows this.

I used a digital caliper on the barrel. Immediately behind the front sight I get 14.70mm. This is in front of the seam you see. The measurement immediately behind the seam is 15.14mm.

I also took some better pictures of barrel, particularly around the gas cylinder. And, the best photo I could manage of the muzzle.

The OD canvas case bears markings inside, and on each side of the zipper pull as shown in the photos.

[USGI]

Your barrel measurements are within specs and appears to be one of those we described above as being made up from a de-milled USGI Carbine barrel with a "new" barrel installed inside the original gas cylinder. Check this site for a couple pictures showing how it was done. Scroll about half way down the page. Some are welded or silver brazed in place while others are pressed in. Either is OK, if properly done.

http://www.m1carbinesinc.com/carbine_rowen.html

Nice pictures of the carrying case - A genuine Shane! I have one and value it higher than some of the others made during that time.

- Bob

[painter777]

Remember it wasn't just Rowen,Becker Co that used this method in the early 60's.

Thanks to Sleepless Jim M, we also know that National Ordnance, Millville and Erma did the same. Their techniques varied a bit, but pretty much the same method. (that make sense?)

Rowen,Becker:
Rowen, Becker Company

Nat Ord:
National Ordnance

Millville:
Millville Ordnance Company

Open this bottom link to see a cut away
Erma:
Ermas Firearms Manufacturing

[USGI]

I think Jim also mentioned Alpine M1 Carbines in one of those links. The RB barrels shown in the lower pictures of your first link look "really scary." It was unclear to me if the Rock-Ola barrel pictured at the top, was from one of the "other" manufacturers?

Just above that, his text mentions that most, but not all of the commercial makers were using the 1903 barrels: "During the early 1960's, most commercial manufacturer, but not all, assembled carbine barrels using the rear half of a cut and scrapped carbine barrel with a 1903A3 barrel cut to carbine dimensions and inserted into the bored out hull of the rear of the carbine barrel."

- Bob