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Thread: 1944 Long Branch No.4 MK1* T

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  1. #21
    Contributing Member jawes's Avatar
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    Fake long branch

    My suggestion is to see what the dealer says when you point out the obvious issues with the gun.

    If he tells you to "take a hike" provide his name to all as a future deterence. That threat might get you some satisfaction. If not, the dealer will be outed and members of this forum can ensure that future actions from the dealer are contained or eliminated.

    Jim

    ---------- Post added at 01:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:53 PM ----------

    BTW, I have 8 LB snipers of which only two are dated 1944. ( 6 are 1945 )

    One is a 74Lxxxx matching trade pattern gun which has been reviewed by members of this forum.

    The other is a 71Lxxxx gun with a mismatched scope.

    jim

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  3. #22
    Advisory Panel stencollector's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee Enfield View Post
    The 60L0 serial number appears original and the lack of a straight line is typical of Long Branch.
    Personally, I always view the serial number with great suspicion when I see file marks in the area of the serial. Same goes for different finish, or a slight flat spot in the area. The wrist of this rifle has the file marks in spades. I can almost make out another L slightly higher and to the left of the L in this serial number. There are ways to raise the original number (if that is the case) but they will usually cause damage to the finish. One of them is to wire wheel the area until almost in the white, then put on some cold bluing. The cold bluing will act differently on the hardened surfaces where the previous numbers were stamped.

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    Legacy Member AngusMcRat's Avatar
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    Thread Starter

    1944 Long Branch No.4 Mk1* T

    Gentlemen,

    Many thanks for your comments.

    .... but I would like to hold it in my hands and physically look at it...under strong light...
    Lee Enfield, if you are ever in Scotland and I still have the rifle, you are more than welcome to call in and physically hold it.

    As Alan De Enfield suggested, I will be treading lightly to begin with and will be exploring various different options including returning the rifle and being refunded the original purchase price; taking compensation equal to the difference between the cost of a genuine Long Branch No4(T) and a replica either in monetary terms or through the acquisition of another rifle.

    With this in mind, could someone give me a ballpark figure for the price of a genuine Long Branch No4(T) without its transit case or scope case and a replica/clone. I have seen Lee Enfield replica's on the market for £2,495 recently with originals from £3,500 and upwards.

    Many thanks,

    Neil

  6. #24
    Legacy Member GeeRam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AngusMcRat View Post
    With this in mind, could someone give me a ballpark figure for the price of a genuine Long Branch No4(T) without its transit case or scope case and a replica/clone. I have seen Lee Enfield replica's on the market for £2,495 recently with originals from £3,500 and upwards.
    What does it actually shoot like?
    If its a good shooter, then its top end of a replica price, of £2250-2500. The only issue with most replica's that are sold as replica's is they are not carrying faked markings, and this one now has 'history' so it might actually be worth less than £2000 in that respect. Probably needs some work to de-fake the markings to make it more obvious as a replica.

    As you say, a real one, without accessories is now £3500 and upwards, so you are looking at minimum of a £1000-1500 difference.

    At the time, were you specifically looking for a Long Branch T, or just a T in general?

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    Advisory Panel Surpmil's Avatar
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    Maybe it's time we had a "Notable Fakes" thread? I was reminded of a few while looking through old photos the other day.

    The marks on the barrel reinforce are original IMO as they are under the original finish. Also the burr on the edge of the Nock's Form is in the direction of tightening, not loosening. Unusual to see on a LB rifle, but 1943 was their busiest/most urgent year I believe. But as the rifle is 1944, the 1943 barrel is suspect for that reason alone. However, 60L is very early in 1944 so perhaps just a barrel produced late the year before?

    Amusing that Mr. RFD did not get the numbers right when he sent the bracket off for engraving.

    I have never seen a bolt head face ground in that manner before; anyone else? Might be a "signature"?

    Presumably whoever bought it in 2013 realized it was a fake and kept the Chest No15 and sold on the rifle. Has the chest or photos of it turned up anywhere?

    A 1944 LB would have a fabricated trigger guard AFAIK, and this one looks like UKicon production to boot.

    And Lee Enfield, the relief hole and the area around it look odd for a LB MkI bolt, don't you think? Could be just the photo of course. (And as you pointed out, no chance of that bolt being on a 1944 rifle)

    The "T" stamp warrants close examination. I see an interesting feature I won't specify here (no need to tutor fakers), which I think will be clear to those who have genuine LB rifles.

    Likewise the inside of the rear pad fitting - I won't point out the details, but it should be obvious, are 4BA screws hard to get in some places? Is that steel wool or swarf in the hole!?
    Last edited by Surpmil; 06-12-2020 at 11:17 AM.
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  8. #26
    Advisory Panel Lee Enfield's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Surpmil View Post
    Maybe it's time we had a "Notable Fakes" thread? I was reminded of a few while looking through old photos the other day.

    The marks on the barrel reinforce are original IMO as they are under the original finish. Also the burr on the edge of the Nock's Form is in the direction of tightening, not loosening. Unusual to see on a LB rifle, but 1943 was their busiest/most urgent year I believe. But as the rifle is 1944, the 1943 barrel is suspect for that reason alone. However, 60L is very early in 1944 so perhaps just a barrel produced late the year before?

    Amusing that Mr. RFD did not get the numbers right when he sent the bracket off for engraving.

    I have never seen a bolt head face ground in that manner before; anyone else? Might be a "signature"?

    Presumably whoever bought it in 2013 realized it was a fake and kept the Chest No15 and sold on the rifle. Has the chest or photos of it turned up anywhere?

    A 1944 LB would have a fabricated trigger guard AFAIK, and this one looks like UKicon production to boot.

    And Lee Enfield, the relief hole and the area around it look odd for a LB MkI bolt, don't you think? Could be just the photo of course. (And as you pointed out, no chance of that bolt being on a 1944 rifle)

    The "T" stamp warrants close examination. I see an interesting feature I won't specify here (no need to tutor fakers), which I think will be clear to those who have genuine LB rifles.

    Likewise the inside of the rear pad fitting - I won't point out the details, but it should be obvious, are 4BA screws hard to get in some places? Is that steel wool or swarf in the hole!?
    I was looking at the previously posted photos earlier this morning, and I am 100% certain that the rifle is faked.

    There are 2 things that haven't been pointed out (on the open forum anyway) that:
    #1) to my experience with LB snipers absolutely screams fake
    #2) Is easier to see, and (on it's own) makes it very unlikely to be real.

    As you say, no sense in giving the fakers a primer, as they are getting far too good.
    BSN from the Republic of Alberta

    http://www.cartridgecollectors.org/

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