No5 Mk1 forestock fitting

[AFJon]

All,

I has asked by a friend to reassemble his No5 Mk1 rifle. Everything went back together and no left over parts, although the washer that goes on with the front trigger guard screw was missing (now purchased and installed). However, The fore stock has a slight rocking motion to it, seems to "pivot" as the front trigger guard screw. Installing a NOS No5 front end doesn't change the pivot.

Suggestions?

Thanks

Information

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[browningautorifle]

I can't picture it quite...the collar is too long or too short...you mean it's rocking after the trigger guard screws are both installed?

[AFJon]

yes. Any idea what the length is supposed to be on the collar?

[Alan de Enfield]

although the washer that goes on with the front trigger guard screw was missing (now purchased and installed)

Do you mean 'washer' (flat) or 'collar' (cylinder)?
You should have a spring washer and a collar.

[Surpmil]

I expect the washer under the head of the front guard screw would be described as a locking washer, at least here in N.A., as the function of the two raised edges is to inhibit rotation, not impart spring tension.

The washers used on the No32 bracket clamping screws are a true spring washer in that they have two full "rotations" and do indeed function as a spring, though the utility in that context is debatable since whatever tension they impart would not be enough to hold the bracket securely, and when the screws are done up completely the washers are fully compressed to the point that they function as plain washers.

The collar you refer to AFJon has as I understand it, two functions: to maintain the correct functioning of the trigger and to prevent the crushing of the bearing surfaces under the barrel reinforce and the adjoining bottom surface of the receiver, and the opposing surfaces under the front of the trigger guard.

The wood between those two opposing steel surfaces needs to be under a degree of compression to avoid the looseness you describe, but if the collar is too short and the wood is over-compressed it will obviously crush over time and looseness result.

If the bearing surfaces in the forend seem relatively unmolested and show signs of even contact, you probably just need to shorten the collar slightly. BUT if you have reason to think the rifle has not been molested/altered over the years, the best first step would be generous applications of linseed oil over a week or so to swell the wood back closer to its original dimensions.

We tend to forget that the vast majority of our generations-old rifles are dry as dust and need this treatment regularly to avoid significant shrinkage.

[AFJon]

Do you mean 'washer' (flat) or 'collar' (cylinder)?
You should have a spring washer and a collar.

The 'washer' was missing initially, collar had always been available.

I expect the washer under the head of the front guard screw would be described as a locking washer, at least here in N.A., as the function of the two raised edges is to inhibit rotation, not impart spring tension.

The washers used on the No32 bracket clamping screws are a true spring washer in that they have two full "rotations" and do indeed function as a spring, though the utility in that context is debatable since whatever tension they impart would not be enough to hold the bracket securely, and when the screws are done up completely the washers are fully compressed to the point that they function as plain washers.

The collar you refer to AFJon has as I understand it, two functions: to maintain the correct functioning of the trigger and to prevent the crushing of the bearing surfaces under the barrel reinforce and the adjoining bottom surface of the receiver, and the opposing surfaces under the front of the trigger guard.

The wood between those two opposing steel surfaces needs to be under a degree of compression to avoid the looseness you describe, but if the collar is too short and the wood is over-compressed it will obviously crush over time and looseness result.

If the bearing surfaces in the forend seem relatively unmolested and show signs of even contact, you probably just need to shorten the collar slightly. BUT if you have reason to think the rifle has not been molested/altered over the years, the best first step would be generous applications of linseed oil over a week or so to swell the wood back closer to its original dimensions.

We tend to forget that the vast majority of our generations-old rifles are dry as dust and need this treatment regularly to avoid significant shrinkage.

I'll try some more linseed oil (raw)

Thanks guys.

[AFJon]

Problem solved. So upon disassembly I took a very close look at where the collar should mount and sure enough at some point the washer had been placed there. Just enough to make it appear the collar was too long. Thanks for the insights gentlemen.

[Alan de Enfield]

The collar length varied from rifle to rifle and the length was determined by the thickness of the forend, as the wood dried out (shrunk) you could either try and get it to swell back to original by soaking in linseed oil, or you adjusted the length of the collar to suit.

Nn excerpt from an old post (2008) by Peter Laidler on fitting the forend :

Now it’s time to fit the trigger guard and Screw, rear, tie, fore-end if you have a Mk1/2 or 1/3. There’s a good chance that the rear of the trigger guard will foul due to the height of the new wood. If that’s the case, then simply scrape away the wood inside its seating to allow it to seat correctly all the way to the front.

The trigger guard should not spring at the rear or front….., NO it shouldn’t! If it was meant to, it’d be made of spring steel! Now for a little tip. The COLLAR. You MUST have a collar and spring washer.
This is what WE used to do. Put the front trigger guard screw into the trigger guard and body WITHOUT the washer or collar. Reverse it (that’s anti-clockwise …..) until you hear it click over the start thread and tighten it BUT COUNT THE TURNS UNTIL IT TIGHTENS AND LOCKS. Say, that it’s 7 ¼ turns to lock. Now do this with the collar fitted if it’s now, say 6 ½ turns, shorten the collar, a smidgin at a time, until the screw tightens up at exactly 7 ¼ turns. That way, you KNOW that the screw is tight, the fore-end is tight between the trigger guard and the screw and you are not crushing the living daylights out of the fore-end. And if it feels a little loose in a years time, then you can safely turn a few thou off the collar.

Now there’s a slight relaxation to this rule. If, after a days shooting, a gap between the rear of the fore-end and face of the butt socket opens up, up to .010”, then this is acceptable providing that there’s no noticeable play fore and aft (there won’t be if you’ve adjusted the collar correctly …) and the correct bearings at the reinforce, draws, magazine well sides and muzzle are intact.

[browningautorifle]

excerpt from an old post (2008) by Peter Laidler on fitting the forend

Didn't we JUST have this for fitting of a #4 rifle forend?

[Alan de Enfield]

Didn't we JUST have this for fitting of a #4 rifle forend?

We did, and to quote another extract from peters article :


There, that’s very basically, it. Incidentally, this is also the correct method of fitting up the No5 fore-end too except that the barrel is fully floating at the muzzle. I have often wondered to myself whether it’d tighten the No5 accuracy group up if it did have a 3 to 7lb muzzle bearing. Why doesn’t someone try and let us know the results.