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Thread: NOS Saginaw Barrel Correct?

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  1. #1
    Contributing Member 320th INF's Avatar
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    NOS Saginaw Barrel Correct?

    Guys,

    Does this appear to be the real USGI NOS barrel from the 40's or 50's or is this something else from a different period that's not what it appears and might be unreliable?

    Your thoughts are more than welcome.

    M1 Carbine Barrel Saginaw | eBay

    Thanks,
    320ht.INF
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    A Collector's View - The SMLE Short Magazine Lee Enfield 1903-1989. It is 300 8.5x11 inch pages with 1,000+ photo’s, most in color, and each book is serial-numbered.  Covering the SMLE from 1903 to the end of production in India in 1989 it looks at how each model differs and manufacturer differences from a collecting point of view along with the major accessories that could be attached to the rifle. For the record this is not a moneymaker, I hope just to break even, eventually, at $80/book plus shipping.  In the USA shipping is $5.00 for media mail.  I will accept PayPal, Zelle, MO and good old checks (and cash if you want to stop by for a tour!).  CLICK BANNER to send me a PM for International pricing and shipping. Manufacturer of various vintage rifle scopes for the 1903 such as our M73G4 (reproduction of the Weaver 330C) and Malcolm 8X Gen II (Unertl reproduction). Several of our scopes are used in the CMP Vintage Sniper competition on top of 1903 rifles. Brian Dick ... BDL Ltd. - Specializing in British and Commonwealth weapons Specializing in premium ammunition and reloading components. Your source for the finest in High Power Competition Gear. Here at T-bones Shipwrighting we specialise in vintage service rifle: re-barrelling, bedding, repairs, modifications and accurizing. We also provide importation services for firearms, parts and weapons, for both private or commercial businesses.
     

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    It appears to be legit, but I would wonder a bit about the description which lists N.O.S, used, and previously owned. It does look like it has been "spiffed up" a bit, possibly to hide some handling marks or storage problems. The barrel could have been rejected due to something out of spec, or could have been a genuine "ready to install" replacement barrel and packaged as such. I believe it should have a punch mark showing if it passed "High Pressure Testing." It is an earlier barrel with the "long skirt" - I'm not sure about the finish on it, but appears to have been touched up. Maybe you have time to ask the seller a few questions. Also, take a look at the older threads listed at the bottom of this page under "similar threads" - Good Luck! - Bob

    Make sure to read the "similar thread" from 2018 - my comment about the "punch" mark should be changed to a P marking for the S.G. barrels.
    Last edited by USGI; 07-14-2020 at 01:29 AM. Reason: corrections and additions

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    Contributing Member 320th INF's Avatar
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    My concerns are exactly what you have spoken to above. Looks refinished, may be a later make replacement or a rejected barrel. The early long skirt is interesting as well.

    I'll ask about the "pressure testing", we'll see what he says.

    Thanks for the reply,

    Tom

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    The ones that I have had in the past had the front sight, early non-bayonet barrel band and gas piston installed so it was ready for use upon installation to the receiver. It could have been a new barrel that was stripped of it parts too.

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    Below is the answer I received from the seller concerning the pressure testing "P" marking question I asked the sell, take it for what it's worth.

    A "P" would not be present as these barrels have not been installed on a gun. They were originally produced by the manufacturer as replacement barrels per contract. The P was added after the gun was proof fired. You are absolutely correct...barrels of this quality are extremely rare. I purchased them many years ago from a gun parts dealer who purchased them at auction from the government in the early 70s. I don't get much call to install many carbine barrels these days so I'm thinning my inventory. These are the last of my barrels that will be for sale.

    A rejected barrel, it really could be....... from the early 70's is along time to be sitting around...........

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    No real answer just observations

    This has been a tough one... Woke up last night thinking about this one, so here's a Ramble for ya.
    Is it a Reject? IDK If so it's sure been around a long time.
    Is / was it for over seas support? Most I've seen like in Norwayicon are complete with sight, gas piston, barrel band.

    Then got to thinking about not having a P stamp.... ?
    So I read this from The Sleepless One's (Jim M) site:

    Each prime contractor who manufactured their own barrels manufactured extra barrels for use as spares. Also for the Government Free Issue Barrel Program.
    Barrels produced as extras were to be proof tested and marked by the manufacturer. To save the time and eliminate duplicated effort the Government Free Issue Barrel Program indicated the barrels for their program were not to be proof tested and marked until they were assembled to the receiver.
    However, some manufacturers continued to proof fire and mark their barrels. This resulted in some barrels being proof tested and proof marked twice, once by the barrel manufacturer and again when assembled to the carbine.


    So when looking back at:
    Government Free Issue Barrel Program indicated the barrels for their program were not to be proof tested and marked until they were assembled to the receiver.


    So here we have one that doesn't have a proof fire stamp.
    So possibly never assembled to a receiver?
    And looks as though it's never been installed by Bubba or the Government.
    Makes you wonder if it missed getting the stamp ? IDK

    What I do know is I have 3 SG's here and none of them have the Shoulder Face, Skirt or Chamber Parked.
    May just be the auction picture...... but it appears to be Parked in those areas.
    Even the little dent on the edge of the chamber face has finish on it. Parked after dent?

    Also wonder why there is a stake mark at the rear of the front sight key way, which is also parked.
    Would a NOS barrel come with a rear frt sight chisel stake mark ?

    Maybe used by NPM and just a punch mark, though unlikely.
    My Best guess: that it had a light small P stamp that may partially remain after being blasted for the Re-Park.
    Pictures of the area for the Gas Piston may reveal if a nut was ever staked.
    Be nice to see down the bore also.
    Glad I'm not in the market.

    Cheers,

    PS I'll ask around if any reported SG barrels with NO proof stamp and follow up here.




    Charlie-Painter777

    A Country Has No Greater Responsibility Than To Care For Those Who Served...

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    Old link here that has been Re-parked. But has a Bomb on the side of the gas cylinder, a P stamp and NO stake mark at the rear of the Frt sight keyway:

    https://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=66131
    Charlie-Painter777

    A Country Has No Greater Responsibility Than To Care For Those Who Served...

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    Well, after speaking with the seller again, he said there are two stake marks where the gas piston was installed at one time, but no damage to the threads (not much of an answer on the threads, sounds like a redirect answer). So, it appears there was a front sight installed and staked along with the gas piston and as you previously stated I believe it's been "cleaned up".

    Never installed, who knows.

    None the less I really do thank you all for your incite, research, and keen eyes.

    Take care

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    And with that........ Tonight I sleep !
    Charlie-Painter777

    A Country Has No Greater Responsibility Than To Care For Those Who Served...

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    Same seller getting ready to sell a WRA barrel as NOS. No pics of Gas Cylinder threads to look for stake marks. Though a side view seems to show crud in the threads. No picture of the Frt Sight Keyway but a side view looks as though there might be a raised metal spot like a staking of the rear of the lead sight key.
    Looking at where the frt sight was on/ now removed shows the difference in how it took the new park. 4 hours to go it's @ $534.00. No way to know (unless someone asked him) how far from the muzzle the W and Ovaled PW stamp are located. If someone is buying for a restoration, it could be shear luck if it's the correct vintage per their serial #.

    NOS, My @ss.

    Link if interested: M1 Carbine Barrel Winchester | eBay

    ETA: Thought I hit PREVIEW but hit Submit. Prolly best I did...... Grumpy today trying to figue out how to pull my pics from PB and how/where to store them so I'll be able to post them as Jpegs (?)
    Last edited by painter777; 07-16-2020 at 05:40 PM. Reason: Edit to Add/ ETA
    Charlie-Painter777

    A Country Has No Greater Responsibility Than To Care For Those Who Served...

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