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  1. #21
    Contributing Member Singer B's Avatar
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    I also oversaw the evidence room as a lieutenant and then as a captain for a large Sheriff's department. All firearms held as evidence (and we had hundreds and hundreds) were individually racked. This had to be done to maintain the weapon in the condition it was seized for evidentiary reasons. Firearms seized for destruction were just thrown into bins. Stolen firearms that were registered were returned to owners without court orders. Firearms seized during search warrants required a court order for release since they were seized pursuant to a court order. Our facility was audited twice a year and we never lost a firearm. Every 2 to 3 years we made a run to a local ironworks to destroy the firearms that were unclaimed or illegal to possess. It broke my heart to see some beautiful firearms go out that way, but the law was the law. For collectors, just remember, each year illegally altered or unclaimed milsurps are destroyed by evidence rooms, which causes our collections to increase in value. It's kind of sad really.....

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    A Collector's View - The SMLE Short Magazine Lee Enfield 1903-1989. It is 300 8.5x11 inch pages with 1,000+ photo’s, most in color, and each book is serial-numbered.  Covering the SMLE from 1903 to the end of production in India in 1989 it looks at how each model differs and manufacturer differences from a collecting point of view along with the major accessories that could be attached to the rifle. For the record this is not a moneymaker, I hope just to break even, eventually, at $80/book plus shipping.  In the USA shipping is $5.00 for media mail.  I will accept PayPal, Zelle, MO and good old checks (and cash if you want to stop by for a tour!).  CLICK BANNER to send me a PM for International pricing and shipping. Manufacturer of various vintage rifle scopes for the 1903 such as our M73G4 (reproduction of the Weaver 330C) and Malcolm 8X Gen II (Unertl reproduction). Several of our scopes are used in the CMP Vintage Sniper competition on top of 1903 rifles. Brian Dick ... BDL Ltd. - Specializing in British and Commonwealth weapons Specializing in premium ammunition and reloading components. Your source for the finest in High Power Competition Gear. Here at T-bones Shipwrighting we specialise in vintage service rifle: re-barrelling, bedding, repairs, modifications and accurizing. We also provide importation services for firearms, parts and weapons, for both private or commercial businesses.
     

  4. #22
    Contributing Member Singer B's Avatar
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    Additionally, and I will try to do this non-political, we currently have a significant number of unethical prosecutors who are not following prosecutorial ethics. Thus you are seeing certain incidents involving firearms being prosecuted that would never be considered by an ethical prosecutor. I was very fortunate to work with some excellent prosecutors who always ensured the cases I filed at the state and federal level were legally and ethically prepared and prosecuted. When I teach Criminal Law at the college, I always place a strong emphasis on the ethics of the prosecutors and defense counsel. So yes, the legal use of a firearm to protect yourself could end up in your firearm being held in an evidence room for an extended period, but usually as a result of the courts and the attorneys involved and not the law enforcement agency holding it.

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  7. #23
    Legacy Member tenOC's Avatar
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    Your dept didn't lose any that made it to the in inventory sheets. Some disappear before they get there.

    My mother in law's family had 2 stolen by the sheriff's dept. Her widowed mother was raising the children on a rural farm. One son was mentally disabled, got into trouble, the police took him into custody and took a rifle and shotgun that were in the house. The next day the widow walked, WALKED MILES, to town to recover the guns which were used for hunting. The sheriff said no guns were taken. I'm sure some deputy's son inherited them.
    My uncle was a mad scientist who got his house raided. The police took bunches of things that were never catalogued nor returned. He got the catalogued chemistry stuff back. Not any of his SCUBA gear which also wasn't catalogued.

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  9. #24
    Legacy Member Wineman's Avatar
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    If your are protecting your family and need to use a weapon, it matters little what it is. Low cost and reliability make the most sense to me. Remington 870 or Mossberg 500 series pump shotguns in 12 or 20 gauge with small Buckshot or large bird shot fit that category. They are going to be with us for a long time (not like evil black rifles or semi-autos). They are inexpensive. They are easy to use with TRAINING AND PRACTICE. Over penetration is minimal if you stay away from 00 Buckshot. Your are not likely to chase someone down or pump 18 rounds into them, just because you can. Keeping the fight in front of you and not expanding the situation will be helpful later.

    Remember if you have to use a firearm (from Paul Harrell) to protect yourself and family:

    Call 911 immediately, assuming you can safely do so. Make sure your story is the first one on record.

    Take as many pictures as you can from your phone and send them to a separate account or to another family member not involved or a secure friend. Document everything you can.

    A separate flashlight is good to have, especially in parking lots and encounters after dark. Small and powerful is better. Your phone or a weapon mounted light are harder to use and you may need them later.

    Have a lawyer on retainer, and call them before you talk to the police. Don't talk to the police unless they are present. Have their business cards on you and give them to the police.

    Expect to have your firearm confiscated, you may be taken to jail, you will end up in court, it will cost you plenty of money. However, you are safe, your family is safe and hopefully these "bad" guys are out of the picture.

    Nothing wrong with M1icon Carbine or AR (I'd pick an M4orgery myself if a shotgun was not available), but it you worry about losing it, it is probably not the right tool for the job.

    Dave

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  11. #25
    Legacy Member DaveHH's Avatar
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    Consider that ARs have a target on them, there is immense pressure to confiscate or ban them again. If you think that this can't happen, just vote Democrat and watch it happen. The only thing saving them now is that so many people own them.

    From a practical standpoint, the carbine will kill just as quickly as an AR and if you have a good one with good magazines and US Army cartridges, it will be at least as reliable.
    Take an AR in a bad situation and accidentally try and chamber a dirty or slightly deformed round. When it doesn't chamber slam the forward assist several times. At that point you could be screwed. There is no easy way to get a stuck round out of an AR without a cleaning rod and time.
    The carbine has a lot less chance of this happening and if it does, put it on the ground and put your boot on the Op Rod. The carbine is lighter and handier, points better (which is where you'll be shooting at close range) And while it isn't as effective as the Garand in this category, you can beat a man to death with the butt stock.. An M16icon doesn't play that way. Additionally, every round has your name on it, it is probably a given that the carbine will go through fewer houses than the .223

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  13. #26
    Legacy Member imarangemaster's Avatar
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    The M1icon Carbine is an awesome home defensive carbine. Since you have two, you are in good shape. My dad fought with an M1 Carbine on Iwo Jima in WW2 and said it never failed him. Iwo was up close and personal. In my LEO career, I mostly carried either an M1 Carbine or a Mini-14 as an LEO trunk weapon. I killed a 200 pound Blacktail Deer at 100 yards with a single shot from an M1 Carbine. .

    I used AR15s in the Army (and then Air Force) from 1974 to 1981, and bought my first AR15 in 1985. I started shooting M1 Carbines and Mini-14s around 1982. I have basically had all three most of the time since the mid-1980s. With that said, I easily shoot better with the M1 Carbine and Mini-14 than the AR-15 platform. For me, the M1 Carbine (and its big brother the Mini-14) is a more instinctive pointing weapon.

    Make yourself proficient with the weapons you are already familiar with.

    I currently still have all three. While AR15 M4gery may be a better warfighter platform, for home defense I use either my Inland M1 Carbine loaded with 110 grain Hornady Critical Defense ammo, or my 581 Series Mini-14 loaded with MK262 MOD1 77 grain OTMBT 5.56.

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  15. #27
    Legacy Member imarangemaster's Avatar
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    This is a sad truth. I was an LEO for 20 years in Washington State and California. All professional, well regulated departments. After I retired I moved to down state Illinois to a small rural farm town in a rural county. There was little professionalism (except with the State Police, who were top notch). THE CHIEF OF POLICE, THE JUDGE, AND THE STATE'S ATTORNEY WERE ALL PART OF AN ILLEGAL GAMBLING RING! My daughter ran a bar in the town, and knew all the dirty laundry.

    Often heard of things being confiscated, but disappearing. The training, selection, and background standards were a joke compared to even the smallest department in California or Washington State.

  16. #28
    Contributing Member CINDERS's Avatar
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    A wise old armourer from WWII told me "The first round goes through them, the second through the roof." when asked what happened "I gave them a warning shot and they kept coming and I was afraid for my life."

    Here in Aus and other countries I guess do not have the luxury of a home defense weapon only stuff you can squirell around the house to either club'em or stab'em but its no problem for them as they are criminals and probably in possesion of a stolen cut down shotty/rifle or H/Gun.
    For us here they are not going to wait until you unlock your safes (Bolts seperate) to put your rifle together then unlock another safe for the ammo load it then join the party, if we did plug them then we would be facing some stiff jail time plus the family of the either injured or dead perps suing your A*se off through common law.......

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  18. #29
    Contributing Member Singer B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by imarangemaster View Post
    This is a sad truth. I was an LEO for 20 years in Washington State and California. All professional, well regulated departments. After I retired I moved to down state Illinois to a small rural farm town in a rural county. There was little professionalism (except with the State Police, who were top notch). THE CHIEF OF POLICE, THE JUDGE, AND THE STATE'S ATTORNEY WERE ALL PART OF AN ILLEGAL GAMBLING RING! My daughter ran a bar in the town, and knew all the dirty laundry.

    Often heard of things being confiscated, but disappearing. The training, selection, and background standards were a joke compared to even the smallest department in California or Washington State.
    Well said! I used to spend a lot of in that part of the state when I had family Mendota.

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  20. #30
    Legacy Member imarangemaster's Avatar
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    There is also the factor of "public perception" in a use of force situation. If you shoot a bad guy with a tacticool AR15, and it sadly went to court, the prosecutor waives the evil "Assault Rifle" in the air for the jury, claiming you were a nut job waiting to use it. If on the other hand you use a common shotgun, a vintage 75 year old collector item M1icon Carbine like their grandfather had, or my wood stocked Ruger Ranch Rifle that looks more like a hunting rifle, they look less "militant and warlike". That is one reason I keep my Ruger bone stock in outward appearance. I know it is smoke and mirrors and you know it is smoke and mirrors, but most do not.

    On another note, in the 1970s, my home defense gun was a Ruger .44 Mag carbine. I loved that Ruger (which was my pig hunting rifle), but cussed the fact, though, that it had a tubular magazine... I shot my first M1 Carbine in 1962, but did not get my first M1 Carbine until 1982.
    Last edited by imarangemaster; 08-10-2020 at 01:46 PM.

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