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Thread: full length sizing die and factory new cartridge cases

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  1. #1
    Legacy Member pocketshaver's Avatar
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    full length sizing die and factory new cartridge cases

    been a time since I set up a full length die. had to take it apart and clean the rust off. Still no idea why Lee claims their case lube causes no rust....

    Trying to get it assembled, my method last time was a fired case inserted into the die on the shell holder, the mandrel inside and locking it in place when the die was closed. It worked well and all the cases came out the same.

    Have a bag of ppu brass, and a lot of misshapen case mouths. So to go fix them up, the mandrel wont fit. Kill 3 cases by turning the necks inside the case, creepy but cute looking..

    Noticed that a quick hit with the chamfer tool and the bullets seat almost perfectly as a friction fit in the mouth. just going to need a quick mouth expander jaunt, and all will be well,

    is it common for brass to be almost on the right mouth diameter?

    is the flaring die enough to smooth out a case mouth?
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    A Collector's View - The SMLE Short Magazine Lee Enfield 1903-1989. It is 300 8.5x11 inch pages with 1,000+ photo’s, most in color, and each book is serial-numbered.  Covering the SMLE from 1903 to the end of production in India in 1989 it looks at how each model differs and manufacturer differences from a collecting point of view along with the major accessories that could be attached to the rifle. For the record this is not a moneymaker, I hope just to break even, eventually, at $80/book plus shipping.  In the USA shipping is $5.00 for media mail.  I will accept PayPal, Zelle, MO and good old checks (and cash if you want to stop by for a tour!).  CLICK BANNER to send me a PM for International pricing and shipping. Manufacturer of various vintage rifle scopes for the 1903 such as our M73G4 (reproduction of the Weaver 330C) and Malcolm 8X Gen II (Unertl reproduction). Several of our scopes are used in the CMP Vintage Sniper competition on top of 1903 rifles. Brian Dick ... BDL Ltd. - Specializing in British and Commonwealth weapons Specializing in premium ammunition and reloading components. Your source for the finest in High Power Competition Gear. Here at T-bones Shipwrighting we specialise in vintage service rifle: re-barrelling, bedding, repairs, modifications and accurizing. We also provide importation services for firearms, parts and weapons, for both private or commercial businesses.
     

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    Contributing Member CINDERS's Avatar
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    Are you lubing the inside of the necks as that stops galling hence the crushed cases been there and done that a few times I use Hornady One Shot spray chamfering the inside neck helps I always have a medium crimp as that way the neck tension is all the same round to round.

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    Legacy Member butlersrangers's Avatar
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    Is your Die one of the Lee 'Collet' style Dies? ... or is it a traditional Full-Length Sizing Die?

    The PPU brass may be thicker, in the neck area, than your previous cases. This could cause dimensional problems with some Dies. Another possibility is that the 'distorted' case-mouths are hanging-up when you attempt to run them into a Sizing-Die.

    Thicker brass can cause a cartridge-case to seize on the (expander-ball) stem as the case-mouth enters the neck-sizing area of the Die. Continued movement will collapse the case. (The stem can be polished and reduced in diameter. The case-mouth should be trimmed and de-burred).

    With a 'Collet' Die, thicker case necks will likely result in the case-neck being fully-sized at an earlier point in the press-stroke. Continued movement of the press Ram would cause the case to collapse.

    Try 'Backing-Off' your Die, one or two turns, and see how much of the case-neck is sized.

    If your Die compresses the case-neck on a mandrel or the ball-stem, to the point where it "locks-up", continuing beyond this point will collapse the cartridge case.

    Cartridge-case mouths, that are distorted, can easily be made 'round' with an awl.
    Holding the 'problem' case with one hand, insert the awl into the case, locking the tip into the 'flash-hole'. Work and press the side of the awl outward, against the flattened-distorted brass, making it round.

    Factory 'new' brass, like PPU, comes sized for use. Just 'true up' any distorted case mouths and de-burr, (then prime, charge with powder, and go to bullet seating Die).
    Last edited by butlersrangers; 08-14-2020 at 11:42 AM.

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    Legacy Member pocketshaver's Avatar
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    ive only used PPU for the mauser.. so far ive only had to reload factory ammo that I shot.

    emailed the idiots at LEE and they state ALL factory new brass comes sized .002 UNDER bullet diameter, and the mandrel is sized .001 under bullet diameter... so that the mandrel "cant fit into factory new brass".

    but I have always seen on forums "simply run the factory new brass through the full length sizer to get the mouths correct"

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    Contributing Member Atticus Thraxx's Avatar
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    I ran into a similar issue and applied two solutions so I don't know which did the trick. Neck size first with die touching shellholder and back one full turn and a touch of Imperial on the expander ball of your full size die every 5-6 rounds. Never thought of the awl trick ( ), I used an undersized pilot from a trimmer clamped on a small vise and sorta press the case mouth round. The awl seems alot easier.
    I have a lot more experience than expertise, still have both eyes and most of my fingers though.

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    Advisory Panel browningautorifle's Avatar
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    I use RCBS dies and don't bother with Lee. I size my new brass just like fired brass and there's no troubles or issues.
    Regards, Jim

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    Legacy Member pocketshaver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by browningautorifleicon View Post
    I use RCBS dies and don't bother with Lee. I size my new brass just like fired brass and there's no troubles or issues.
    I have no fired case, OR fully sized case to use to get my die set up, the technique I learned with LEE email support was to install the die body into my hand press. attach the shell holder, and adjust so the arm is in the correct position. Then insert a sized empty cartridge, or a fired empty cartridge into the shell holder and drop the resizing mandrel into the empty case and run it up into the die and use that to adjust the mandrel into the die body so the stupid thing doesn't bottom out early on the cartridge case and pop out.

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    Legacy Member butlersrangers's Avatar
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    I've had good luck with Lee Dies in .45 acp (carbide), 6.5X55mm Swedishicon Mauser, 8X50mm Lebel, 6.5X50 Arisakaicon, and (I use) a 7.5X55mm Swissicon 'Collet-Die' to partially neck-size .30-40 Kragicon 'fired' cases.

    I have stuff from various makers.
    IMHO - No 'brand' is totally free of mistakes, with some calibers and on special order stuff.

    Some military chambers have generous dimensions and were not made with Re-loading or Commercial Standards in mind. This makes Re-Loading Dies a challenge to manufacture!

    Sometimes, you have to depart from the manufacturer's 'Instructions' to make ammo that will work and also give adequate cartridge-case life.

    With 'bolt guns', Full Length Resizing usually 'over works' brass and 'throws away' the virtue of having 'fired' brass that is custom fitted to your rifle's chamber.

    New brass usually comes F.L. Sized and ready for reloading. The case mouth will tension a projectile. Distorted case mouths are easily made right. They can be run slightly into a Die to just accept the 'expander ball'. IMHO - There is no need to run a new case fully into the F.L. Die.

    Creativity and problem solving is part of the Fun!

    p.s. I set the position of my 'decapping-pin, expander-ball & rod' by eye. I leave a bit of clearance to allow for variation in different makes of brass. (The decapping-pin just has to protrude enough to push out the spent primer).

    BTW 'pocketshaver', what Mauser cartridge are you reloading?
    Last edited by butlersrangers; 08-15-2020 at 02:30 PM.

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    Legacy Member Bruce_in_Oz's Avatar
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    Lyman and Hornady, for starters, also offer replacement decapping spindles with Tungsten Carbide expanders on them. These are usually supplied with two different lock-nut set-ups to suit the two commonest thread used by the other "majors' in this game.

    I have several and the lack of "drag" and "squeal" is most gratifying. A touch of graphite powder will reduce wear and noise with conventional expanders; something to try whilst you save up for a carbide expander. Graphite AND a Carbide expander is almost too easy.

    Pretty much the same "satisfaction" that comes with using Carbide sizing die sets. Not quite up to owning a personal set of TC FLS dies for rifle calibres, yet.... Though, having literally worn-out several "conventional" 308 Win FLS dies in my lifetime, maybe I should have bought a Carbide .308 die when I still had an income.

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  15. #10
    Legacy Member pocketshaver's Avatar
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    8x57 of course. only mauser I have.

    there is some serious deformation on the case mouths, and its annoying.

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