Anyone making 9MM Mak out of 9X19 cases?

[RED]

In light of the recent shortages and huge price increases I have decided to convert 9MM Luger cases to 9X18 Mak. It seems to be a pretty easy process, trim to length, then resize in 9MM mak dies. Is it really that easy or am I missing something?

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[Bruce McAskill]

Red, Yes it's really that easy. When I got my East German made Mak there were little boxer primed brass available so I made my own from standard 9mm brass. Works fine and just as durable as the factory reloadable brass. hth

[jimb16]

Sounds like I may have to give it a try. Boxer primed brass is hard to come by around here and factory ammo seems very inconsistant. How do you mark your brass?

[Bruce McAskill]

Jim, I just use a felt tip to cover the base of the case. If I see color anywhere on the base I take a second look at it to be sure it's not a regular 9mm and I do not shoot my normal 9mm when shooting the Mak. The other thing I did was to use some Chinese 9mm brass just for the Mak. I reserve it just for the Mak. hth

[jimb16]

What about case diameter? Maks are shooting a .364 bullet as opposed to the 9mm which is a .355. Any problems?

[Bruce McAskill]

No problems at all. Just be sure to use a set of dies for the Mak. The expander will open it up to the correct diameter. Just trim a standard 9mm case. Then run it through the dies, load and fire and the case will form it full length to the standard Mak size. hth

[jimb16]

No problems with the case head diameter then? Thanks, I'll give it a try.

[Carry Gun]

Re: 9 Mak from 9 Luger brass...

The only problem I've found is that newly-trimmed cases may come up too short after the initial firing in a 9 Mak. chamber.

I initially ran 9 Luger cases through a 9 Mak. expander die, then trimmed to proper 9 Mak. length (9x18mm) with a cheap little Lee hand trimmer (a good, albeit slow-to-use product, by the way).

Case length after that initial trimming was about .701," but, after the first firing in a 9 Mak. chamber, the cases expanded to the slightly larger 9 Mak. chamber diameter -- and shrank in length to a too short .693" length.

I continued to load and shoot the now nearly too short cases, and ran into no problem other than, possibly, a slight deterioration in accuracy.

You can bet, though, that I'll be making another batch of 9 Mak. cases soon, and this time I'll make it a point to trim the cases no shorter than .710" after initially expanding the 9 Luger cases in a 9 Mak. expanding die. That way, when the cases fully "puff out" in the larger-diameter Makarov chamber, the brass won't shorten to nearly unacceptable length.

I suspect my first run of cases, with the "too short" length, are approaching an unsafe condition. Since the cartridge headspaces on the case mouth, too short cases will, at some point, result in dangerously excessive headspace. I may be there already.

Anyway, leave bit of extra length on your case in the initial trimming from 9 Luger (9X19mm) to 9 Makarov (9x18mm). That way, when the case expands on it's first trip through a 9 Mak. chamber, it won't turn out too "stubby" for safety and accuracy.

Also, since 9 Luger brass is made to withstand higher chamber pressures, and thus likely has thicker case walls, than real 9 Makarov brass, it's probably a good idea to slightly reduce powder charges in deference to lessened internal case capacity. As a side benefit though, I believe I can get more reloads out of the "tougher" reformed 9 Luger brass than I can from "real" 9 Makarov brass. That last point is sort of hard to prove, however, since I almost always end up loosing my brass in the weeds before very many handloads have gone through the rascals.

My Polish surplus P64 pistol loves the reformed 9 Mak. brass, though. A load of 3.4 grains of Green Dot behind a 95-grain Hornady hollow-point shoots with astounding accuracy, considering the tiny gun that launches it.

The P64 is a "pocket pistol" about the size of the Walther PPK, but my little Pole will usually plant five Hornadys within about 2 1/2 inches of one another off sandbags at 25 yards. It makes great little "trail pistol" fully capable of popping a rabbit or squirrel in the head at reasonable range if you're looking for dinner, or tossing a "double tap" into something larger should that need ever arise.

Very limited shooting with lead slugs from a new Lee 95-grain bullet mould shows that a load of 3.2 grains of Green Dot behind the Lee bullet places bullets to the same point-of-impact at 25 yards as the Hornady hollow-point load. I haven't shot the cast-bullet load enough yet to get a true reading on accuracy, but results so far are encouraging.

Happy trails and tight groups,

-- Carry Gun --

[willchris]

Re: 9 Mak from 9 Luger brass...

The only problem I've found is that newly-trimmed cases may come up too short after the initial firing in a 9 Mak. chamber.

I initially ran 9 Luger cases through a 9 Mak. expander die, then trimmed to proper 9 Mak. length (9x18mm) with a cheap little Lee hand trimmer (a good, albeit slow-to-use product, by the way).

Case length after that initial trimming was about .701," but, after the first firing in a 9 Mak. chamber, the cases expanded to the slightly larger 9 Mak. chamber diameter -- and shrank in length to a too short .693" length.

I continued to load and shoot the now nearly too short cases, and ran into no problem other than, possibly, a slight deterioration in accuracy.

You can bet, though, that I'll be making another batch of 9 Mak. cases soon, and this time I'll make it a point to trim the cases no shorter than .710" after initially expanding the 9 Luger cases in a 9 Mak. expanding die. That way, when the cases fully "puff out" in the larger-diameter Makarov chamber, the brass won't shorten to nearly unacceptable length.

I suspect my first run of cases, with the "too short" length, are approaching an unsafe condition. Since the cartridge headspaces on the case mouth, too short cases will, at some point, result in dangerously excessive headspace. I may be there already.

Anyway, leave bit of extra length on your case in the initial trimming from 9 Luger (9X19mm) to 9 Makarov (9x18mm). That way, when the case expands on it's first trip through a 9 Mak. chamber, it won't turn out too "stubby" for safety and accuracy.

Also, since 9 Luger brass is made to withstand higher chamber pressures, and thus likely has thicker case walls, than real 9 Makarov brass, it's probably a good idea to slightly reduce powder charges in deference to lessened internal case capacity. As a side benefit though, I believe I can get more reloads out of the "tougher" reformed 9 Luger brass than I can from "real" 9 Makarov brass. That last point is sort of hard to prove, however, since I almost always end up loosing my brass in the weeds before very many handloads have gone through the rascals.

My Polish surplus P64 pistol loves the reformed 9 Mak. brass, though. A load of 3.4 grains of Green Dot behind a 95-grain Hornady hollow-point shoots with astounding accuracy, considering the tiny gun that launches it.

The P64 is a "pocket pistol" about the size of the Walther PPK, but my little Pole will usually plant five Hornadys within about 2 1/2 inches of one another off sandbags at 25 yards. It makes great little "trail pistol" fully capable of popping a rabbit or squirrel in the head at reasonable range if you're looking for dinner, or tossing a "double tap" into something larger should that need ever arise.

Very limited shooting with lead slugs from a new Lee 95-grain bullet mould shows that a load of 3.2 grains of Green Dot behind the Lee bullet places bullets to the same point-of-impact at 25 yards as the Hornady hollow-point load. I haven't shot the cast-bullet load enough yet to get a true reading on accuracy, but results so far are encouraging.

Happy trails and tight groups,

-- Carry Gun --

Carry Guns 'Brass Shrinkage' results are close to what I've been getting, BUT I've been using the European CIP (Commission Internationale Permanente pour l'Epreuve des Armes à Feu Portatives) Standards for case length. There ARE NO SAAMI STANDARDS for this round.

The CIP standards are summarized in both the CIP Bulletin (downloadable for free) and the Lyman Manual - 48th.

The max overall length for the Makarov case is 18.10 mm -- considerably longer than what lee lists with its die kit. I cut them pretty long -- around 18.08, and after fire forming they come out to around 18.00. (as an aside, the last batch of REAL Winchester 9mm Mak I shot had a case length of 18.00 mm)

These are straight blow back pistols that headspace off the case -- a little longer case does pull the bullet back from the rifling with regards to OAL -- but a case that's too short could be a real safety issue.

The 9mm Luger cases that I've converted have been VERY durable -- and survived multiple reloadings.

If anyone has more guidance on this I'd love to hear it!

Attachment 7548

[rondog]

All I can add is that I've made 'em myself. If I can do it without blowing myself up, anybody can do it.