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Thread: Handloading for the SMLE Mk5 #1 Jungle Carbine

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  1. #1
    Legacy Member Cobbershot's Avatar
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    Handloading for the SMLE Mk5 #1 Jungle Carbine

    Hi, I was recently given a Mk5 #1 Jungle Carbine that came out of a factory in a Englandicon in 1947, all original numbers and in close to pristine condition.

    My eyes aren’t what they used to be and I can no longer use the peep sights as well as I use to, so I purchased an Addley Precision “no gunsmithing” Picatinny rail mount and fitted a set of Hawke 1” Match rings holding a 4x32 Nikko Stirling Mountmaster scope.

    I have put some PPU 174gr FMJ through it and they shot really well with respectable groups. I have also loaded some Hornady 174gr FMJ that shot reasonably well. I want to use this rifle for a little hunting so I thought I’d give the Hornady 174gr RN a try. Unfortunately these bullets simply don’t want to shoot as well as the FMJ. The load that shows the most promise with these bullets is 37.2gr of ADI2206H. Has anybody else had any luck with these bullets? If so, what load did you find provided the best accuracy?

    I have done some reading online and it seems that the a Hornady 150gr offering in .312 might be another option, but from memory, the twist rate of the J C is 7.5:1 so I’m not sure if the 150gr offering is suitable for this twist rate. Has anybody else tried these bullets and had any success?

    I’m really looking forward to getting out into the field with this rifle as I’ve always had a soft spot for the SMLE .303 and now that I have one I want to use it. I’m fairly new to loading for the .303 so any guidance you can offer will be gratefully accepted.

    Cheers, Vince
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    A Collector's View - The SMLE Short Magazine Lee Enfield 1903-1989. It is 300 8.5x11 inch pages with 1,000+ photo’s, most in color, and each book is serial-numbered.  Covering the SMLE from 1903 to the end of production in India in 1989 it looks at how each model differs and manufacturer differences from a collecting point of view along with the major accessories that could be attached to the rifle. For the record this is not a moneymaker, I hope just to break even, eventually, at $80/book plus shipping.  In the USA shipping is $5.00 for media mail.  I will accept PayPal, Zelle, MO and good old checks (and cash if you want to stop by for a tour!).  CLICK BANNER to send me a PM for International pricing and shipping. Manufacturer of various vintage rifle scopes for the 1903 such as our M73G4 (reproduction of the Weaver 330C) and Malcolm 8X Gen II (Unertl reproduction). Several of our scopes are used in the CMP Vintage Sniper competition on top of 1903 rifles. Brian Dick ... BDL Ltd. - Specializing in British and Commonwealth weapons Specializing in premium ammunition and reloading components. Your source for the finest in High Power Competition Gear. Here at T-bones Shipwrighting we specialise in vintage service rifle: re-barrelling, bedding, repairs, modifications and accurizing. We also provide importation services for firearms, parts and weapons, for both private or commercial businesses.
     

  3. #2
    Legacy Member Bruce McAskill's Avatar
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    I cannot speak about a #5 but my Savage #4 really likes 150gr bullets. Even my granddaughter likes shooting it with the 150 gr but will not shoot it with the standard 174 gr. She is quite accurate with the #4 too.

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    Legacy Member oldfoneguy's Avatar
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    Ive had my No5 and have hunted with it for 40 years come this season. This is it in current hunting configuration. I've had it this way for over 20 years basically since my eyes started giving out. Don't hate me as I have all the original parts and no none of them are for sale. Incidentally there was a slight improvement in accuracy with removal of the flash hider but it made me no friends at the range. B Square no drill mount Bushnell 3x9 and Weaver rings. I don't think I've had to rezero the thing in over a decade. Butt stock is an old Fajen high comb I got new for $3 in 1982 when one of my favorite gun stores was going out of business.

    In the 30+ years since I've been reloading I've hunted with a steady diet of 150's. Initially in .311 dia and then .312. My formula for super accurate hard hitting hunting rounds is this, Hornady 150gr flat base .312 dia 42.9grs IMR 4064, Winchester WLR primer. My No5 loves this round and will shoot it at nearly MOA all day long. If accuracy is more important than impact the round that gets it closest to MOA but doesn't hit as hard, same Hornady 150gr. over 41grs IMR 4895 with Federal 210 primer. I accept no responsibility for anyones use of these formulas. Your results may vary.

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    Legacy Member Cobbershot's Avatar
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    Thanks oldfoneguy, I should be able to work out a load using your data fairly easily. Looking at the ADI Powder Equivalents chart, IMR 4895 is the same as ADI AR2206H (probably the same powder), which is what I’m using now, so that shouldn’t be a problem, and IMR 4064 is the same as Varget and AR2208, (I know AR2208 and Varget are the same powder, so 4064 most likely is as well). I have both 2206H and 2208 on hand, so that makes life easy. I also have another ADI powder that is similar to AR2208, AR8208 Benchmark, that I use in my .223 .243 and 30.30 with good success, so I might check the load data for that powder as well.

    Long Island NY...I have a very good friend who lives in the Bellmore area of Long Island, and is also a shooter. It was him and one of his mates who (another Milsurps shooter) actually steered me towards, and suggested, the Addley Precision scope mount.

    Once again, thanks for your assistance. I will have to slip out this week and buy some 150gr bullets to give them a try in my Mk 5.

    Cheers, Vince

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    Legacy Member Sunray's Avatar
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    A No. 5 Rifle is NOT an SMLE. Isn't a "jungle carbine' either. Knew a guy who used one, exclusively, for moose in Northern Ontario.
    Anyway, work up the load just like you would for any rifle. Bullet weight is more about what game you're hunting than anything else.
    Keep a close eye on the bases and ring screws too. None of the so-called 'no gunsmithing' mounts work really well.
    Spelling and Grammar count!

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    Legacy Member Daan Kemp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cobbershot View Post
    but from memory, the twist rate of the J C is 7.5:1
    LE twist was always 1:10 even No 5 rifle.

  11. #7
    Advisory Panel browningautorifle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunray View Post
    A No. 5 Rifle is NOT an SMLE. Isn't a "jungle carbine' either. Knew a guy who used one, exclusively, for moose in Northern Ontario.
    Not his question...no help at all.
    Regards, Jim

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    Legacy Member Bruce_in_Oz's Avatar
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    The magazines in ALL of these are set up for Mk 7 ammo with its 174gn, base-heavy ball projectile.

    Attempting to run a bullet that is somewhat shorter may result in disappointment, because the bullet end of the cartridge will not be properly "controlled" both whilst in and leaving the magazine.

    DO NOT USE boat-tailed bullets. Find a 175-180 grain, flat-based bullet that is "close enough" to a Mk 7 in length and profile and work with it.

    "Adjusting" the front mag lips is a pretty good way to destroy a magazine; the thin, hardened metal fractures surprisingly easily. The magazine is "old-school", not the removable ammo "storage and feed" gizmos that started to appear after the Lee Enfield was already a big deal. Think: BAR, G-43, M-1 Carbine, FAL, M-14 etc. Interestingly, before the Brits cottoned onto the idea of "charger-loading" as introduced by Mauser and the Mosin Nagant, the "primary" mag on a Lee Metford / Lee Enfield was secured with a dinky chain. There was a concept of having a "spare", containing ammo that could be swapped in, with the chained-on mag not being lost in the process. Ahhh! The "good old days"!! It MAY have been feasible with the early, torpedo-shaped 220 gn, Mk 6 and earlier ammo, but NOT with the streamlined Mk 7 spitzer.

    The chain "fixing loop", adjacent to teh front triggerguard screw, stayed on pretty much to the end; not for a chain, but being somewhere to secure the "waterproof" fabric action cover that also seemed like a good idea the the time.

    ALWAYS feed from the magazine, even for single shots. The mechanism is designed such that the head of the cartridge will side up the face of the bolt-head and be engaged by the extractor, EXACTLY the same as a Mauser 98.

    Yes, you CAN shove a round in the chamber and force the bolt to close over it, unlike a Mauser. However, you are just adding to the force required to close the "cock-on-close" bolt system.
    Last edited by Bruce_in_Oz; 09-18-2020 at 06:19 PM.

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  14. #9
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    Thanks Bruce. I managed to get a Range session and try out the handloads I put together using both the Hornady 174gr RN and Hornady 150gr SP using primarily AR2206H powder. I loaded the 174gr proj with 36.9gr - 37.3gr of AR2206H in .1gr increments (3 rounds of each load) but found it disappointing. I also loaded the 150gr proj with 36.9gr - 39.5gr of 2206H in 2% increments. I found some pressure signs (hard extraction) towards the upper levels of these loads, so I am a bit wary of them now. I put together 3 rounds of the 150gr proj using AR2208 and found that these were a much more pleasant load to shoot and no pressure signs, but still not overly accurate. I intend working on this though.

    I have access to a 180gr cast GC mould, so I am going to give them a try. I may even powder coat some of these to see how they go. I have seen targets where a 207gr Cast powder coated proj shot less than 1 MOA, so I will look around for some of these.

    I’m not sure if I find load development the most enjoyable part of shooting because of the frustration often encountered, but then again...it’s still shooting, which makes it all worthwhile.

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    Contributing Member CINDERS's Avatar
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    Get on to Taipan bullets 174Gn HPFB .312" they are back in business they are not a cheap bullet but they are very accurate I have not tried the current batch out of my rifles but the original ones made by Malcolm Bone well smoked every body on the range out of my No.4's & MkIII's.
    I make them to Mk 7 COAL spec's and ensure the tips clear the front of the mag I use 46Gns AR2209 with a med crimp, '09 has it is a gentler recoil pulse than say 08 or 06H (Tried both) the 150Gn FBSP .312" Hornady (COAL 3.041") fly well I have used them up to 400M in comps and cleaned up as well I crimp all my 303 ammo reloads us CCI large rifle primers and RP cases neck annealed.

    There is plenty of info on the net with these projectiles usual form though start under what is given having a shorter barrel you may want to stick to the faster powders I have not tried 8208 as I think this may be a bit to fast for the Lee Action.
    Last edited by CINDERS; 09-18-2020 at 10:57 PM.

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