Two “distinctly different” U.S. Civil War bayonets.

[drm2m]

I usually try to collect correct bayonets and scabbards for the long arms that I own.
In this case… I do not own a rifle for one of the two bayonets shown below.

The (Second Type) bayonet and scabbard are the M1855 for the U.S. Model 1841 rifle as shown below.
(a.k.a. Mississippi rifle)

(Click on the bar to enlarge the images.)








The markings on the bayonet.
The lower P is the "proved" mark. The upper initials PB are the inspector's initials.





Whitney Contract, this gun is dated 1848. (Originally .54 caliber, some rifles were later altered to .58 caliber)…this rifle remains in .54 caliber.


















-------------------------------




Dahlgren (knife) Bayonet.
AMES Mfg. Co. Chicopee, Mass.








Markings:
On one side –1864 U.S.N DR (Navy inspector Daniel Reynolds)
Other side-- AMES MFG CO /
CHICOPEE MASS








(Interesting comments from unknown author.)

The first Knife Bladed bayonet is considered to be the Model 1861 for the Plymouth / Whitneyville rifle. It is perhaps better known by its nickname the Dahlgren Bowie Bayonet, named for it inventor Admiral John A. Dahlgren. Many articles have been written about the Dahlgren bayonet but what is most intriguing are the actual letters from the Admiral himself regarding its design and use. As we know the basic use of a bayonet is mounted to the end of a rifle or musket. To Dahlgren's thinking this is not the proper use of his newly invented arm. It should be known that Admiral Dahlgren was in command of several Navy ships and knew first hand what close quarters fighting was about. With this in mind perhaps we can relate to the admirals thought when he wrote that the bayonet was best used in the hand not mounted on the end of the rifle it was designed for. It is also interesting to note that the 1861 rifle already had a sword bayonet designed for it at the time of Dahlgren's invention of the new bayonet. In Dahlgren's own words he called it the "most useless thing in the world except at the end of a musket." Perhaps this explains why most Dahlgren bayonets do NOT fit the Model 1861 rifle. They were meant to but they were also designed to be used as a close quarters fighting weapon in a sailors or marines hand. The Admiral invented a bayonet because a knife would not be sanctioned by the Ordnance Board. But being the clever fellow he was.... the bayonet did not really have to fit the rifle either.

NOTE:
The Whitney "Plymouth" rifle, named after the U.S.S. PLYMOUTH, a naval ordnance testing ship which had been built under Dahlgren's supervision, has the distinction of being the only U.S. contract arm to be originally rifled in .69 caliber.


David

Information

Warning: This is a relatively older thread This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

[lboos]

David, I have a bayonet that look's a lot like the one you have. It has no name, the blade is 25in. on the blade near the handle is the date 1862, on top of the handle is c 2826 2 16 there are no other marking's. Any idea's? Thanks. lboos.

[drm2m]

lboos,

Reilly’s book United States Military Small Arms 1816-1865 has sketches of bayonets associated with U.S. long arms of this period with their overall length and blade length.
I am certainly not an expert on U.S. Civil War saber bayonets but if you can give me the exact blade length (25”?) and overall length….. I will see if I can give you some ideas.

The bayonet shown in my photos above is 27-1/4 inches overall with a 22-1/2 inch blade. There were three types of bayonets for the Model 1841 rifle.

The bayonet measurements for the Model 1855 rifle were 26-1/2 inches overall with a 21-3/4 inch blade.

In looking through this book I have not seen any references to a brass-hilted saber bayonet with a 25 inch blade.

David

[lboos]

David,
The blade is 25-7/16 inches
The overall is 30-1/4 inches
Thank you. lboos.

[drm2m]

Sorry lboos, I don't think I can help you.
There were other European manufactured brass-hilted bayonets of this style i.e. the French from which much U.S. stuff was copied. ....sword patterns etc.

Hopefully someone else has some ideas, or find a bayonet collecting forum where the experts hang out.

David

[Bayonetman]

I think this may be a "mystery bayonet" that is shown in Albert Hardin's book The American Bayonet 1776-1964 as bayonet #97. He identifies it as the Merrill Navy Rifle, Model 1862, but also states that the identification is in question as it is based on a Merrill Rifle with this style bayonet attached in the Marine Corps Museum. He states that it will also fit the Model 1841 rifles but he doubts that it was made for any of them.

No recent research to my knowledge has turned up any better identification of this bayonet, and I personally feel that it is still unidentified. It is not impossible that it is of European origin although what few references I have on them does not show anything just like this one.

[lboos]

Bayonetman,
Thank you also for your time and intrest. maybe one day i'll find out.
"mystery bayonet". I kinda like that. lboos.