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  1. #1
    Legacy Member Mt203's Avatar
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    Accuracy

    I have a Lithgowicon no.1 Mk3 that is giving me some issues. It has a new (previously unissued surplus barrel) headspace is good and the stock is previously unused Slazenger wood. So essentially it's a newly built rifle. Forend is fitted nice and tight, nose cap is fitted well, mainstream is tightened well, buttstock is tightened, but it has a weird shot group. I've tried PPU, MEN 83, Remington, Hornady SST, and a few other types of ammo. The best have been the surplus Germanicon MEN 83 and Hornady SST, both shoot the same pattern. In a 3 shot group the first shot will hit around center of the target, 2nd shot will jump high and right about 3" and the third will hit low and left of center about 3" or about 6" low and left of the 2nd shot. It will repeat this pattern over and over with slight but not much variation. Weather is 70 degrees, stock is unbedded and RLO was used to finish the stock. This has been shot from a supported position with time for the barrel to cool between shots. Recoil lugs have good equal contact, bolt lugs have good equal contact. Crown is good. Has anyone had a very predictable shot pattern like this? Is the barrel just taking a bit to break in? Is there something I'm missing in how the forend is adjusted? My BSA Dispersal that isn't fitted nearly as well shoots tighter.
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    Legacy Member Alan de Enfield's Avatar
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    So, it consistently shoots "centre, high, low" then again "centre, high, low", then again "centre, high, low" ?

    If so that seems a bit strange - one possibility is that the Front Trigger guard screw is not installed correctly (incorrect length, or not tightened sufficiently)
    Mine are not the best, but they are not too bad. I can think of lots of Enfields I'd rather have but instead of constantly striving for more, sometimes it's good to be satisfied with what one has...

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    Legacy Member Mt203's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan de Enfield View Post
    So, it consistently shoots "centre, high, low" then again "centre, high, low", then again "centre, high, low" ?

    If so that seems a bit strange - one possibility is that the Front Trigger guard screw is not installed correctly (incorrect length, or not tightened sufficiently)

    Yea, "center, high, low" and repeated. I've had LE's that will fire all over, and LE's that will fire tight groups. Never had I had one fire such a predictable inconsistency.

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    Legacy Member Mt203's Avatar
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    I just took the rifle down and looked inside the forend again. Appears to have proper contact in the receiver area, bushing is correct height/length, knox has correct amount of contact, barrel is not touching the top handguards, no barrel contact except for the ring and at the very end of the forend. Correct pressure against the muzzle end of the forend. Barrel is near new and clean (I have 80 rounds through it currently) but I ran a bore snake through after each shot for the first 10, then cleaned with a brush and patches, repeated twice.

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    Legacy Member AradoAR234's Avatar
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    process of elimination

    Like Sherlock Holmes reputedly said.." when you have discounted everything else, what you have left, no matter how improbable, is the answer ". Certainly an unusual one though. If the rifle is set up as well as you have described, then digging deeper is probably required. As new surplus barrels are no certainty for consistency- they were all mass produced; have you had the bore slugged? New timber likewise; settling in periods are also an unknown. Harmonics in No 1 Mk 3 rifles play a very large part in consistency as well- shimming of contact points can really help or make things much worse. I am thinking that this may be a real possibility considering the consistent recurrent pattern. Another trial and error path.

    Another consideration is ammunition. If you handload, then a consistent batch as a baseline i.e close to military specs as possible 174-180 gn at @ 2400 fps. One of my Lithgows' shoots Hornady .312 projectiles much better than Sierra .311, and another is much more accurate with original straight walled FMJ than the boat tailed bullets of the same weight. Let us know your progress...……..

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    Contributing Member 30Three's Avatar
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    How is the barrel sitting at the nose cap end. Is it touchuing the cap at 10 and 2 O'clock?
    Have you measured the upward pressure applied to the barrel at the muzzle end?

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    Legacy Member Mt203's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AradoAR234 View Post
    Like Sherlock Holmes reputedly said.." when you have discounted everything else, what you have left, no matter how improbable, is the answer ". Certainly an unusual one though. If the rifle is set up as well as you have described, then digging deeper is probably required. As new surplus barrels are no certainty for consistency- they were all mass produced; have you had the bore slugged? New timber likewise; settling in periods are also an unknown. Harmonics in No 1 Mk 3 rifles play a very large part in consistency as well- shimming of contact points can really help or make things much worse. I am thinking that this may be a real possibility considering the consistent recurrent pattern. Another trial and error path.

    Another consideration is ammunition. If you handload, then a consistent batch as a baseline i.e close to military specs as possible 174-180 gn at @ 2400 fps. One of my Lithgows' shoots Hornady .312 projectiles much better than Sierra .311, and another is much more accurate with original straight walled FMJ than the boat tailed bullets of the same weight. Let us know your progress...……..
    Slugs at .3105 so she is real good there. I'm going to test a few areas with shimming and see what results I get.

    ---------- Post added at 11:54 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:50 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by 30Three View Post
    How is the barrel sitting at the nose cap end. Is it touchuing the cap at 10 and 2 O'clock?
    Have you measured the upward pressure applied to the barrel at the muzzle end?
    Nose cap has two small bumps at 10 and 2 that the barrel rests against. Up pressure feels to be good. I don't have a gauge to measure but it is consistent with my other good shooting No.1's.

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    Legacy Member Sunray's Avatar
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    Hornady does not make an SST of the correct diameter for the .303 Brit. They do make a 174 grain .3105" FMJ under their "Traditional" line. They make a .312" 150 grain SP and a 174 grain RN too.
    "...predictable inconsistency..." Suggests a bedding issue. Which with an Enfield has more to do with the stock not fitting right everywhere than just the receiver.
    Spelling and Grammar count!

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    Legacy Member Mt203's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunray View Post
    Hornady does not make an SST of the correct diameter for the .303 Brit. They do make a 174 grain .3105" FMJ under their "Traditional" line. They make a .312" 150 grain SP and a 174 grain RN too.
    "...predictable inconsistency..." Suggests a bedding issue. Which with an Enfield has more to do with the stock not fitting right everywhere than just the receiver.
    The Hornady I'm referring to is made by PCI utilizing the Hornady 150 grain .312 SST bullet and PPU brass, it is sold by Grafs and Sons.

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    I find it difficult to understand how a wood/metal object remembers the shot before, and fires a predictable sequence. Is it not possible that the shooter was correcting for the previous shot by aiming off? That would explain the observed pattern.
    What happens when another shooter uses the rifle?

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