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  1. #11
    Legacy Member krinko's Avatar
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    " if Stratton is correct,"

    In this case, Stratton is irrelevant. I can refer you to "India's Enfields" by Robert W. Edwards.
    This rifle is part of an Indian rebuild program that started in 1942. The "Z" suffix indicates it's from the first group of rifles in the program-----when they got to 99999 Z they'd move up to 00001 Y---the rebuild program ran the alphabet back to front.
    All original marks would have been carefully removed with new proofs and serial number added, so there is going to be about no way to discover where or when the rifle started out. The way Assam/Burma ate up rifles in WW2, she could just as well be a 1941 Ishapore that had a very short, hard life. No way to know.
    I've had several of these little beauties over the years, but none at present. They are a legitimate Ishapore rifle and a legitimate part of the larger Lee Enfield Story.
    -----krinko

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    A Collector's View - The SMLE Short Magazine Lee Enfield 1903-1989. It is 300 8.5x11 inch pages with 1,000+ photo’s, most in color, and each book is serial-numbered.  Covering the SMLE from 1903 to the end of production in India in 1989 it looks at how each model differs and manufacturer differences from a collecting point of view along with the major accessories that could be attached to the rifle. For the record this is not a moneymaker, I hope just to break even, eventually, at $80/book plus shipping.  In the USA shipping is $5.00 for media mail.  I will accept PayPal, Zelle, MO and good old checks (and cash if you want to stop by for a tour!).  CLICK BANNER to send me a PM for International pricing and shipping. Manufacturer of various vintage rifle scopes for the 1903 such as our M73G4 (reproduction of the Weaver 330C) and Malcolm 8X Gen II (Unertl reproduction). Several of our scopes are used in the CMP Vintage Sniper competition on top of 1903 rifles. Brian Dick ... BDL Ltd. - Specializing in British and Commonwealth weapons Specializing in premium ammunition and reloading components. Your source for the finest in High Power Competition Gear. Here at T-bones Shipwrighting we specialise in vintage service rifle: re-barrelling, bedding, repairs, modifications and accurizing. We also provide importation services for firearms, parts and weapons, for both private or commercial businesses.
     

  4. #12
    Legacy Member Alan de Enfield's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by krinko View Post
    " if Stratton is correct,"

    In this case, Stratton is irrelevant. I can refer you to "India's Enfields" by Robert W. Edwards.
    This rifle is part of an Indian rebuild program that started in 1942. The "Z" suffix indicates it's from the first group of rifles in the program-----when they got to 99999 Z they'd move up to 00001 Y---the rebuild program ran the alphabet back to front.
    All original marks would have been carefully removed with new proofs and serial number added, so there is going to be about no way to discover where or when the rifle started out. The way Assam/Burma ate up rifles in WW2, she could just as well be a 1941 Ishapore that had a very short, hard life. No way to know.
    I've had several of these little beauties over the years, but none at present. They are a legitimate Ishapore rifle and a legitimate part of the larger Lee Enfield Story.
    -----krinko
    That is great info. Thanks
    So, My "Y" suffix (38688Y) would be what sort of date ?

    Would the FTR markings be as a result of the 'rebuild programme' or would it be an additional (subsequent) rebuild / FTR ?
    Mine are not the best, but they are not too bad. I can think of lots of Enfields I'd rather have but instead of constantly striving for more, sometimes it's good to be satisfied with what one has...

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    Thanks for solving the puzzle krinko. I have a copy of Edwards book........perhaps I ought to read it! Clearly, if the linishing of the old marks has been done thoroughly there is little chance of ever knowing where the rifle started life.

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    Contributing Member 30Three's Avatar
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    Seems like the original poster is not that interested in the answer! Which poses the question, why ask in the first place!

    However the thread is interesting to the rest of us; so thanks for posting the info!

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    Legacy Member Alan de Enfield's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Payneicon View Post
    Thanks for solving the puzzle krinko. I have a copy of Edwards book........perhaps I ought to read it! Clearly, if the linishing of the old marks has been done thoroughly there is little chance of ever knowing where the rifle started life.

    The shape of the gas vent does help (slightly) with manufacturers identification and is something not changed during FTR's
    Mine are not the best, but they are not too bad. I can think of lots of Enfields I'd rather have but instead of constantly striving for more, sometimes it's good to be satisfied with what one has...

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  11. #16
    Legacy Member krinko's Avatar
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    "So, My "Y" suffix (38688Y) would be what sort of date ?"

    The FR mark on the left side of the buttsocket includes the date of the rebuild.
    In your case {'46}.
    The 3rd Edition of "India's Enfields" has information on this model on Page 67, kind of out of the way---but it is there.
    -----krinko

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    Advisory Panel Surpmil's Avatar
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    Why would Ishapore be so keen on removing prior markings in 1942? After '47 certainly one would expect it, but why before? Just to make the rifles appear "newer"? In the depths of WWII, with the Japaneseicon in Burma?

    Not saying it couldn't be of course; complacency was common enough in 1942 even.
    “There are invisible rulers who control the destinies of millions. It is not generally realized to what extent the words and actions of our most influential public men are dictated by shrewd persons operating behind the scenes.”

    Edward Bernays, 1928

    Much changes, much remains the same.

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    Legacy Member krinko's Avatar
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    "Why would Ishapore..."

    The Edwards book has a fair amount of information in it but "why" is not included.

    -----k.

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    Must find my copy of the book to see if it sheds any light on when the Indians became so keen on linishing out the previous markings, & whether it was instituted for upgrades to a newer spec & refurbishments alike. It's not an area I commonly get involved in, but I'm sure I've seen plenty of rifles made elsewhere that have been through RFI & simply had the new markings added to the left side of the butt socket in the area below the safety spring. I wonder if there was any distinction made between specification upgrades & simple refinishing/refurbishing.......?

    By chance I've just got back from buying three SMLE's this morning, one of which is a linished (RHS butt socket) & remarked (both sides of butt socket) No2 MkIV* - it is remarked just 'No2 MkIV*' on the RHS of the socket, & the RFI initials & a '1941' date on the LHS. It's got me curious now!?!
    Last edited by Roger Payne; 10-04-2020 at 11:50 AM. Reason: typo

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