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    Legacy Member KentuckyShane's Avatar
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    Lee Enfield Unknown Date

    All,

    Looking for some help on what I have. I know it’s a Lee Enfield but after hours of research still am not sure of things like original date or where it was manufactured, etc. I know that the nose cap, bolt, receiver and sight serial numbers all match. 54045 Z on all of them. I also see several other markings such as No1 MkIII and FR ‘42. I also believe this is from India due to the crown over GRI and ISA with an arrow stamped into the wood butt. I do not see any original date anywhere. The date is nowhere to be found. It’s completely smooth metal and doesn’t look like it was ever ground out where it would normally be but paced. Really curious on when it was originally produced and if it really is from India as it doesn’t have the screw a lot of folks mention. Any help is greatly appreciated.
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    A Collector's View - The SMLE Short Magazine Lee Enfield 1903-1989. It is 300 8.5x11 inch pages with 1,000+ photo’s, most in color, and each book is serial-numbered.  Covering the SMLE from 1903 to the end of production in India in 1989 it looks at how each model differs and manufacturer differences from a collecting point of view along with the major accessories that could be attached to the rifle. For the record this is not a moneymaker, I hope just to break even, eventually, at $80/book plus shipping.  In the USA shipping is $5.00 for media mail.  I will accept PayPal, Zelle, MO and good old checks (and cash if you want to stop by for a tour!).  CLICK BANNER to send me a PM for International pricing and shipping. Manufacturer of various vintage rifle scopes for the 1903 such as our M73G4 (reproduction of the Weaver 330C) and Malcolm 8X Gen II (Unertl reproduction). Several of our scopes are used in the CMP Vintage Sniper competition on top of 1903 rifles. Brian Dick ... BDL Ltd. - Specializing in British and Commonwealth weapons Specializing in premium ammunition and reloading components. Your source for the finest in High Power Competition Gear. Here at T-bones Shipwrighting we specialise in vintage service rifle: re-barrelling, bedding, repairs, modifications and accurizing. We also provide importation services for firearms, parts and weapons, for both private or commercial businesses.
     

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    Contributing Member NORTHOF60's Avatar
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    Pictures would be a great asset in answering your questions.
    Some do, some don't; some will, some won't; I might ...

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    Agree, photo's of the rifle would be helpful, but on the basis of the Z in the serial number, if Stratton is correct, it would relate either to a BSA or RSAF Enfield produced SMLE dating from WW1 or just before. A Z prefix is associated with the following production years: RSAF - 1912, 1915, 1916, 1917, & 1918; BSA - 1915 & 1916.

    Hope this helps a little.

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    Legacy Member Giove's Avatar
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    If I understand correctly the rifle is an Ishapore (Crown/GRI and the Z as a suffix).

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    Legacy Member Alan de Enfield's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KentuckyShane View Post
    All,

    Looking for some help on what I have. I know it’s a Lee Enfield but after hours of research still am not sure of things like original date or where it was manufactured, etc. I know that the nose cap, bolt, receiver and sight serial numbers all match. 54045 Z on all of them. I also see several other markings such as No1 MkIII and FR ‘42. I also believe this is from India due to the crown over GRI and ISA with an arrow stamped into the wood butt. I do not see any original date anywhere. The date is nowhere to be found. It’s completely smooth metal and doesn’t look like it was ever ground out where it would normally be but paced. Really curious on when it was originally produced and if it really is from India as it doesn’t have the screw a lot of folks mention. Any help is greatly appreciated.

    Does it have a 'single' hole gas vent or an enlarged oval hole, or a 'figure 8' shaped gas vent ?
    Mine are not the best, but they are not too bad. I can think of lots of Enfields I'd rather have but instead of constantly striving for more, sometimes it's good to be satisfied with what one has...

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    Giove, it may just have been FR'ed in India. RFI is not listed as ever using Z as a prefix/suffix. There is great variability in the positioning of the letters in serial numbers; most serials are letter prefixed, but some suffixed.......

    AFAIK the letter associated with a number is there just to distinguish the different blocks of numbers; 'A block', 'B block' etc., & the positioning before or after doesn't have any deeper significance, although the majority of letters are before the digits.
    Last edited by Roger Payne; 09-30-2020 at 08:52 AM.

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    Legacy Member Giove's Avatar
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    Yes Roger, it's true, but the combination of "clues" makes me think of an Ishapore.

    Furthermore, the letter as a suffix is typical of Indian SMLEs.

    I can be wrong of course.

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    Legacy Member Alan de Enfield's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by giove View Post
    If I understand correctly the rifle is an Ishapore (Crown/GRI and the Z as a suffix).

    If it helps - My Ishapore (original build and Ishapore Fr'd) has 5 numbers and a suffix "Y"
    Mine are not the best, but they are not too bad. I can think of lots of Enfields I'd rather have but instead of constantly striving for more, sometimes it's good to be satisfied with what one has...

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    If the OP could furnish us with some photographs that might clinch it as military proof marks & acceptance stamps would likely narrow down its provenance. We are working on very incomplete information & may be making wrong assumptions. For example, as you say Giove, it could be a RFI original build & has been completely renumbered with a new serial number. Who knows?? Any chance of some pictures??

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    This is like asking Sir Kenneth Clark to evaluate a sidewalk artist.
    “There are invisible rulers who control the destinies of millions. It is not generally realized to what extent the words and actions of our most influential public men are dictated by shrewd persons operating behind the scenes.”

    Edward Bernays, 1928

    Much changes, much remains the same.

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