Good or no good ?

[Patrick Chadwick]

"I'm betting the whole thing was red hot and then they quenched it in a pail of water. "

- Which could mean that the steel is now partially glass-hard where it was fully quenched, varying to dead-soft further along.

Even for me, that would all be far too "iffy".

---------- Post added at 04:52 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:46 PM ----------

"One of my books states that you can use an acetylene torch as long as you keep the temperature to the point that the colour of the bluing outside the contact point is not affected (the topic was annealing two (2) points on the top of a Mauser 98 receiver ring (notorious for being heat treated extremely hard on the surface, but dead soft internally) so that it could be drilled for tapping, and also involved using heat sinks."

Maybe the writer of the book would care to give you a guarantee? My local gunsmith once showed me a rifle where some bright spark had tried exactly that on a recycled barrel for use in a sporting rifle. So, by law, it had to be reproofed. The proof house turned it down as soon as they saw the receiver ring.

[tatou]

That said, if you have woodwork to restore, it's a great clothes horse.

Chances are this is what it's new purpose in life will be

---------- Post added at 03:12 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:04 PM ----------

After reading many of your posts, I believe that half of your motivation is the challenge. Personally, I've never removed the barrel from anything that wasn't a "take-down" model, although I've read the mechanics and methods involved. It could prove to be a learning experience, even if the barrel can't be salvaged.

It would have been a nice challenge.
I've done many SMLE Mk III's and a few carbines but i have never restored a MLE...yet.
I have this very nice 1893 MLM Mk II action/bolt and all the fittings plus a cut fore end so basically all i am missing is a barrel.
I have never re barreled an action (or had one done) before, i have never had the used for it.
But an 1893 is somewhat of a rare bird and would love to bring it back... even if it's a bitser.
I'm not worried too much though ... still plenty of butchered rifles out there ...ermmm i mean donor rifles

---------- Post added at 03:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:12 PM ----------

I'd say its toast, an old saying many years ago taught to me, for anything like the above or similar, if it was your car brakes and you had your family in it would you be happy....... NO
Works all the time for me, I've scrapped many a rifle and barrel when in doubt. Some I have saved and re barrelled to .22

I bought a Mauser many years ago ( Dealer to Dealer over the phone) a K98 that had been made into a target rifle, in which the action looked very similar to the condition of the above, (read Bruce's post above about Mauser's) some of the pitting had gone through the hardening, luckily I only wanted the barrel as it was a Schultz & Larsen barrel, but it was the fact the dealer would of sold this rifle to anyone.................... think his comment at the time was it bears proof marks, I wouldn't of fired caps from it, barrel removed and action scrapped.

Yeah i have the same mentality when it comes to safety.
I just am at a total lost when it comes to metallurgy or the condition that barrel might be....
It's a first for me.

I never thought about turning it into a .22... might be a great idea actually.
Would the barrel, once sleeved, be safe to shoot .22s ? (i imagine so but this is another aspect i have no clue off)
I know it involves more than a sleeve but it still might be an option.

---------- Post added at 03:25 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:22 PM ----------

Maybe the writer of the book would care to give you a guarantee?

Yeah... i have this saying about putting my face next to a controlled explosion, with a sketchy rifle... it's my face, it's an ugly one but it's the only one i got...

[WillSarchet]

What about heating it up until you can remove the brazing, and pull the bolt that way? Then strip everything down, look into having the bolt parts and action re-heat treated, and send the barrel to a barrel manufacturer to be used as a pattern. Then buy one or two new barrels on the new pattern depending on if the brazed action can be retreated properly or not.

[30Three]

If you have the opportunity to get the barrel sleeved for a .22; then I'd say it's worth removing the barrel from the wrecked receiver to check it out. I would not use it for any other calibre.
To remove the barrel I think the best way would be to cut the receiver off carefully. Slot the receiver and split it open to release the threads; in the way you would a seized nut.
It will take some care and attention obviously, but it won't need heating up and should work. I doubt the braze has got into the barrel threads.
A .22 MLE would be a fun rifle.

[Alan de Enfield]

A .22 MLE would be a fun rifle.

One of my first LE's was an MLE in 410 shotgun calibre.
Great little rabbiting rifle, once the chamber was properly reamed out,
You can use the existing bolt, bolt head and extractor Simply 'smooth bore' the barrel and ream the chamber.

A 410 only has a chamber pressure of ~12000 psi. SAAMI state that a .22LR has a chamber pressure of ~ 24,000psi

308 is ~ 62,000 psi
303 is ~ 50,000 psi

[tatou]

What about heating it up until you can remove the brazing, and pull the bolt that way? Then strip everything down, look into having the bolt parts and action re-heat treated, and send the barrel to a barrel manufacturer to be used as a pattern. Then buy one or two new barrels on the new pattern depending on if the brazed action can be retreated properly or not.

I don't know much about brazing but having removed some from a sight once i would guess the whole thing would need to go into a forge, to heat it enough... then there's the cleaning.
While still not be sure they can be cleaned and mostly saved.
As for having the barrel as a pattern... it's a little more effort than i would be ready to put into it.
MLE's or MLM's are not rare enough for that.
But I appreciate the input, i'm just not ready to go that far to save that rifle.

---------- Post added at 08:41 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:36 PM ----------

If you have the opportunity to get the barrel sleeved for a .22; then I'd say it's worth removing the barrel from the wrecked receiver to check it out. I would not use it for any other calibre.
To remove the barrel I think the best way would be to cut the receiver off carefully. Slot the receiver and split it open to release the threads; in the way you would a seized nut.
It will take some care and attention obviously, but it won't need heating up and should work. I doubt the braze has got into the barrel threads.
A .22 MLE would be a fun rifle.

I once made a cut away SMLE out of scrap parts, cutting and notching holes in the receiver was easier than i had anticipated.
Starting to look like a start of another nice project.
Thank you for the tips and ideas.

[tatou]

One of my first LE's was an MLE in 410 shotgun calibre.
Great little rabbiting rifle, once the chamber was properly reamed out,
You can use the existing bolt, bolt head and extractor Simply 'smooth bore' the barrel and ream the chamber.

A 410 only has a chamber pressure of ~12000 psi. SAAMI state that a .22LR has a chamber pressure of ~ 24,000psi

308 is ~ 62,000 psi
303 is ~ 50,000 psi

Ohhh... i think i like the idea of the 410 even more than the .22
Although i don't hunt small game and a .410 MLE might be a bit long to carry in the woods i do love the idea of being able to use the bolt and receiver with no work or alterations.
Not to mention that reaming and smoothing the chamber would certainly cost less than having a .22 sleeve fitted in.
If i was ever to find a useable 303 barrel i could always revert it back to it's initial 303 caliber.
I have a metal follower plate that was used in the Indian .410 muskets ... with some rework i might be able to fit it on top of the MLE magazine. To make it a single loader.
I also have 1/2 a case of the Indian .410 ammo... do you happen to know if these would be more psi than the commercial .410 ?

[Bindi2]

Don't think about rebuilding that action into a firing rifle. The action may have been worn out that is why it was rendered into a wall hanger. The heat for brazing will have destroyed the case hardening of the pressure bearing parts anyway. It is a relic a damaged relic and should be treated as that only.

[tatou]

Don't think about rebuilding that action into a firing rifle. The action may have been worn out that is why it was rendered into a wall hanger. The heat for brazing will have destroyed the case hardening of the pressure bearing parts anyway. It is a relic a damaged relic and should be treated as that only.

Thank you Bindi2, I appreciate your concern and it is dully noted, trust me.
Rebuilding that action was never even in consideration.
I would not put time and effort in to it... there are much safer and easier rifles to work with.
What i was asking was IF the barrel could have been affected by the heat.
And the general consensus is yes.... a big interrogation point at best.
That is more than enough for me to write it of.

I do however have another, perfectly sound 1893 MLM action that is in need of a barrel.
Now i am being told that it MIGHT be good for a .22 or .410.
That gives me just enough to consider having the barrel (and the barrel alone) checked by a metal fabricator/gunsmith who specialize in things like this.
I'm not talking about any joe schmoe here.
As much as i trust those who have answered me (lot of well known members here) i realize that they only give advices from a picture.
I would never risk something like this by myself or by the words from fellows on the internet (no disrespect guys, but safety cannot be underestimated imho)

I am a world away from doing anything with this, but i do have a better idea of IF i want to send it out and have it checked.

[Bindi2]

The chamber will have been affected by the heat just as much as the action. At best it is a relic at worst scrap metal.