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  1. #11
    Legacy Member Daan Kemp's Avatar
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    Gil, my experience with revolvers is they aren't that dependable as you would think. Crane bends easily, rims are finicky if you load too fast, timing goes out, of course reloading with loose cartridges under pressure, ... There are good reasons why automatics are found in all armies and few revolvers. And most police forces.

    Aragorn, yes, revolvers are injured limbs friendly, but training with automatics solves that problem too.

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    A Collector's View - The SMLE Short Magazine Lee Enfield 1903-1989. It is 300 8.5x11 inch pages with 1,000+ photo’s, most in color, and each book is serial-numbered.  Covering the SMLE from 1903 to the end of production in India in 1989 it looks at how each model differs and manufacturer differences from a collecting point of view along with the major accessories that could be attached to the rifle. For the record this is not a moneymaker, I hope just to break even, eventually, at $80/book plus shipping.  In the USA shipping is $5.00 for media mail.  I will accept PayPal, Zelle, MO and good old checks (and cash if you want to stop by for a tour!).  CLICK BANNER to send me a PM for International pricing and shipping. Manufacturer of various vintage rifle scopes for the 1903 such as our M73G4 (reproduction of the Weaver 330C) and Malcolm 8X Gen II (Unertl reproduction). Several of our scopes are used in the CMP Vintage Sniper competition on top of 1903 rifles. Brian Dick ... BDL Ltd. - Specializing in British and Commonwealth weapons Specializing in premium ammunition and reloading components. Your source for the finest in High Power Competition Gear. Here at T-bones Shipwrighting we specialise in vintage service rifle: re-barrelling, bedding, repairs, modifications and accurizing. We also provide importation services for firearms, parts and weapons, for both private or commercial businesses.
     

  3. #12
    Contributing Member Gil Boyd's Avatar
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    Daan,
    The aircraft and helicopter pilots I knew who were in the main ex Vietnam Vets who were in the Police Force when we spoke, spoke of reliability and didn't need so much TLC in the cleaning department! The main reason given was the physical size compared to a semi auto pistol.
    Perhaps thats why they found favour, didn't need as much care and attention than an auto would!
    'Tonight my men and I have been through hell and back again, but the look on your faces when we let you out of the hall - we'd do it all again tomorrow.' Major Chris Keeble's words to Goose Green villagers on 29th May 1982 - 2 PARA

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    Legacy Member Daan Kemp's Avatar
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    Knowing air force pilots I have bias about their comments. We can endlessly discuss, argue, rant, rave, etc, about autos and revolvers, but no military has revolvers as sidearm, except for specific purposes; that should tell you all you need to know about reliability, TLC, care, attention, etc. If not a handgun, then an SMG or similar.

  6. #14
    Advisory Panel browningautorifle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daan Kemp View Post
    but no military has revolvers as sidearm
    No, not after a point they didn't but we speak of a time when they were still in the system and there was a sudden need for more weapons than could be furnished. I agree that likely the statement about broken arms has little bearing. Infantry often suffer the same sort of debilitating injuries early on in action. I read military statements about substitute standard issues...from the time.
    Regards, Jim

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    Legacy Member old tanker's Avatar
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    Revolvers for pilots, particularly after the move to jets and ejections seats, weight was an issue. A loaded 1911 weighs 2.375 pound or 1.08 kg. Western ejection seats average 12-14 gs with Russianicon seats as high as 20 g. That was the reasoning behind the aluminum cylinder Colt and S&W air-crewman revolvers developed in the Fifties. It takes a pretty sturdy webbing to retain a holster with a pistol that suddenly weighs as much as a sack of cement.

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    Advisory Panel browningautorifle's Avatar
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    Our pilots had an emergency handgun packaged into the bottom of the ejection seat for a while. They actually tried issuing them a...wait for it...Model 29 S&W revolver. Can't imagine any of our airfaries discharging a .44 with any result but plowing the field or shooting clouds... They withdrew them.
    Regards, Jim

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    Legacy Member old tanker's Avatar
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    There were a couple of survival guns stowed under the seats of US aircraft. The M4 survival rifle and the later M6 survival weapon. Both of them were chambered for the .22 Hornet, but the later M6 also included a .410 shotgun barrel. Elegant the were NOT. The M4 was an adaptation of an H&R commercial sporting rifle while the M6 was purpose built. Weighing 3 pound, with 14 inch barrels, it was only 15 inches long when folded in half for stowage

    Aircrew were instructed to wrap the M6 barrels with parachute cord as a field expedient fore-stock. A storage compartment in the stock held 9 rounds of .22 Hornet ammunition with 4 shotgun shells. A trigger bar was used that could be depressed while wearing mittens.




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    Advisory Panel browningautorifle's Avatar
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    Those used to be quite collectable around here but also quite hard to find. I never had one in my US military collection...
    Regards, Jim

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    Legacy Member old tanker's Avatar
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    A commercial copy of the M6 seems to get revived every so often down here with longer barrels to keep them out of NFA territory. Once upon a time Canadianicon Customs was helpful when flying to Alaska from the lower 48 with survival rifle in the airplane. I had a CA7 for that job. Sure can't do that now.

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    Contributing Member Gil Boyd's Avatar
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    There seems to have been a nature of, "What do you want to have as a sidearm for defence" attitude in the 60/70's, and some had Mini Rugers, dependant on what airframe the pilot found himself, and which campaign....Malaya was the example. Clearly fast jets and tighter cockpits dictated the scope that aircrew could choose from!!
    I knew of several Army Air Corps Helicopter pilots in NI who had Sterling SMG's in preference to the 9mm pistol!!
    'Tonight my men and I have been through hell and back again, but the look on your faces when we let you out of the hall - we'd do it all again tomorrow.' Major Chris Keeble's words to Goose Green villagers on 29th May 1982 - 2 PARA

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