+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 5 1 2 3 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 50

Thread: Savage No.4 (t)

Click here to increase the font size Click here to reduce the font size
  1. #1
    Contributing Member Micheal Doyne's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Last On
    03-26-2024 @ 02:34 AM
    Location
    Wiltshire Uk
    Posts
    397
    Real Name
    Ed Vigors
    Local Date
    03-29-2024
    Local Time
    01:26 AM

    Savage No.4 (t)

    So is there anything all that special about a Savage No4 (t)?

    I have the option to buy one, I have handled it before but not for some time time, and currently I have no photos, from memory it looked good and genuine. The chap involved is an extremely able shot and with him it has won a few completions.

    We are yet to discuss price, and I will be examining it prior to any purchase. My main concern is the chap involved has referred to it often enough as rare as rocking horse sh1t a few times. For me mostly I care about the effect on target and owning a real No4(t), I’m not all that interested in a premium for a specific manufacture particularly if it isn’t a view widely held.

    So your thoughts please...
    Information
    Warning: This is a relatively older thread
    This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

  2. # ADS
    Friends and Sponsors
    Join Date
    October 2006
    Location
    Milsurps.Com
    Posts
    All Threads
    A Collector's View - The SMLE Short Magazine Lee Enfield 1903-1989. It is 300 8.5x11 inch pages with 1,000+ photo’s, most in color, and each book is serial-numbered.  Covering the SMLE from 1903 to the end of production in India in 1989 it looks at how each model differs and manufacturer differences from a collecting point of view along with the major accessories that could be attached to the rifle. For the record this is not a moneymaker, I hope just to break even, eventually, at $80/book plus shipping.  In the USA shipping is $5.00 for media mail.  I will accept PayPal, Zelle, MO and good old checks (and cash if you want to stop by for a tour!).  CLICK BANNER to send me a PM for International pricing and shipping. Manufacturer of various vintage rifle scopes for the 1903 such as our M73G4 (reproduction of the Weaver 330C) and Malcolm 8X Gen II (Unertl reproduction). Several of our scopes are used in the CMP Vintage Sniper competition on top of 1903 rifles. Brian Dick ... BDL Ltd. - Specializing in British and Commonwealth weapons Specializing in premium ammunition and reloading components. Your source for the finest in High Power Competition Gear. Here at T-bones Shipwrighting we specialise in vintage service rifle: re-barrelling, bedding, repairs, modifications and accurizing. We also provide importation services for firearms, parts and weapons, for both private or commercial businesses.
     

  3. #2
    Advisory Panel Lance's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Last On
    Today @ 05:33 PM
    Location
    New England, USA
    Posts
    660
    Real Name
    Lance
    Local Date
    03-28-2024
    Local Time
    08:26 PM
    90% of Savage T's were incomplete conversions and are pretty common. Examples that were fitted with a scope are rare, ones with a matching scope falls under very rare. Buyer beware a lot of incomplete rifles were paired with scopes out of service.

  4. The Following 5 Members Say Thank You to Lance For This Useful Post:


  5. Avoid Ads - Become a Contributing Member - Click HERE
  6. #3
    Contributing Member Micheal Doyne's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Last On
    03-26-2024 @ 02:34 AM
    Location
    Wiltshire Uk
    Posts
    397
    Real Name
    Ed Vigors
    Local Date
    03-29-2024
    Local Time
    01:26 AM
    Thread Starter
    From memory the rifle is t stamped, wrist is numbered to the scope and mount is numbered to the rifle. From memory all marking looked like original markings but I would need another look. There is no chest, tin or other CES.

  7. #4
    Advisory Panel
    Roger Payne's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Last On
    03-20-2024 @ 06:05 AM
    Location
    Sutton Coldfield, UK.
    Posts
    3,429
    Real Name
    Roger Payne
    Local Date
    03-29-2024
    Local Time
    12:26 AM
    Some of the Mk1 & a few Mk1* T's were scoped up at the time, but many just became 'less Telescope' rifles. If the rifle was genuinely scoped up from the factory it should have an 'early' scope serial number consistent with a Mk1 scope (or maybe just possibly an early Mk2). If it bears a 1944 or 45 era scope (dated or by serial number estimate) then it was almost certainly fitted after the event, although it could still possibly have been done by the military........but look at it critically if it is being proffered as all matching & 'special'! In relative terms any Savage 4T is scarce compared to a BSA Shirley. The vast majority of Savage rifles were set up by H&H as per the BSA's, although a few were set up at RSAF Enfield, probably along with the Trials rifles. It is only a guesstimate but I suspect that around 85% of all T's were set up on BSA rifles, with Trials, Savage, Maltby, Long Branch, & the very, very, occasional Faz rifles making up the remainder. But if you are looking for a rifle primarily to shoot, then depending on how much money the seller wants for it, it may be worth waiting for a 'bog standard' BSA to turn up.

    When you inspect it, don't expect it to have all of the 'typical' marks on it as per Peter's book - if it is real, it won't have, as it is generally thought that they were set up before the H&H marking system became standardised during 1943. You should see the S51 on the butt though, as this marking was applied consistently from quite early on (unless it's one of the few EFD converted examples, of course). If you can get photo's I am sure people will be queuing up to give you their advice on it!

    I note Lance's comments, but suspect that many of the surplused Savage T's ended up in the US & so they are probably commoner there now than here in the UKicon.
    Last edited by Roger Payne; 11-12-2020 at 07:25 PM.

  8. Thank You to Roger Payne For This Useful Post:


  9. #5
    Contributing Member Micheal Doyne's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Last On
    03-26-2024 @ 02:34 AM
    Location
    Wiltshire Uk
    Posts
    397
    Real Name
    Ed Vigors
    Local Date
    03-29-2024
    Local Time
    01:26 AM
    Thread Starter
    Thanks Rodger, as ever great knowledge! I will pay the rifle a visit and post some photos up.

    When was the “t” completion mark standardises, and would this be expected to be present on real savage?
    Last edited by Micheal Doyne; 11-13-2020 at 03:24 AM.

  10. #6
    Contributing Member Micheal Doyne's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Last On
    03-26-2024 @ 02:34 AM
    Location
    Wiltshire Uk
    Posts
    397
    Real Name
    Ed Vigors
    Local Date
    03-29-2024
    Local Time
    01:26 AM
    Thread Starter
    I know the price is what any one is willing to pay for something, however I am short of budget but this chap is a friend I don’t want to short change. In my mind there are 4 options for what this is:
    Scope-less t with a no32 mk1
    Real t with a no32 mk1
    Or same again with a mk2 scope.

    It can be assumed to be in good to excellent cosmetic state, and and is regularly shot in competitions with strong results.

    Rifle, sling and scope only and is in GB what would people pay?

  11. #7
    Advisory Panel
    Roger Payne's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Last On
    03-20-2024 @ 06:05 AM
    Location
    Sutton Coldfield, UK.
    Posts
    3,429
    Real Name
    Roger Payne
    Local Date
    03-29-2024
    Local Time
    12:26 AM
    Michael, as the rifle left H&H it would almost certainly not have borne the typical sidewall T, with serifs etc. However, it could genuinely have acquired a T stamp subsequently added at a FTR, for example. Out of curiosity, do you know if it is a Mk1 or Mk1* rifle?

    Everyone has a different view, usually influenced by whether they are buying or selling, & I have not sold a Savage T for a few years, but ounce for ounce a Savage is probably worth a little more than a BSA, though I would not have said hugely so. I know there was (may still be) a UKicon dealer offering a Savage 4T for about 10k on his website. It did/does have transit chest & bits & pieces, but I would have thought he would be lucky to achieve that kind of price. If it is any yardstick I have sold two BSA 4T's in the last twelve months; both were tidy rifles that had been sympathetically cleaned up a little (they were in the batch acquired in the '90's), & both went with scope & bracket but no other accessories. Both were mis-matched but collimated & they sold for 3,600 & 4,250 respectively. The dearer rifle was slightly nicer in condition & had a 2/1 scope on it, the less expensive rifle bearing a Mk1.

    I hope this may help a little.......other people's prices can differ hugely; some a little less, & some a lot dearer.....

  12. Thank You to Roger Payne For This Useful Post:


  13. #8
    Legacy Member GeeRam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Last On
    03-18-2024 @ 03:21 PM
    Location
    Berkshire, UK
    Posts
    853
    Local Date
    03-29-2024
    Local Time
    12:26 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Payneicon View Post
    I know there was (may still be) a UKicon dealer offering a Savage 4T for about 10k on his website. It did/does have transit chest & bits & pieces, but I would have thought he would be lucky to achieve that kind of price.
    It may well have sold just very recently, as it was still showing on their website about 3 weeks ago, when I spotted it while searching for something else.........but, its no longer listed anymore upon checking just now.

    I'd be surprised if they got anywhere near what they wanted for it, but you just never know.

    I agree, with you, and would say anything in the £3500-4500 range would be my guess without seeing it or photos of it, but if he's won comps with it and its a known good shooter, the upper end of that price range would be more likely.

    Back in July, I scored 40.2 with mine at 900yards on Stickledown at Bisley, and beat the guys with Envoys and L39's, so I reckon mines worth at least another 500 quid now based on that
    Last edited by GeeRam; 11-13-2020 at 07:48 AM.
    Just the thing for putting round holes in square heads.

  14. #9
    Contributing Member Micheal Doyne's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Last On
    03-26-2024 @ 02:34 AM
    Location
    Wiltshire Uk
    Posts
    397
    Real Name
    Ed Vigors
    Local Date
    03-29-2024
    Local Time
    01:26 AM
    Thread Starter
    Thank you very much, that confirms a lot of my thoughts. I’m just waiting to hear back when I can give it a visit. From memory it is a 0C#### Mk1, has a 5 groove English barrel, an S51 stamp and some numbers on butt (maybe scope maybe s/n). The receiver side wall appeared to have been meanly ground during the application of the pads, and then re finished. Scope was I think a 1/2.

    So this is from 30s in hand just over a year ago, so we will see.

    ---------- Post added at 08:02 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:52 AM ----------

    I tried to explain to a friend why I was frantically reading up on savage (t)s and got this for my pains

    “You say your Long Branch mk1*(t) clone shoots very well, so why do you need an expensive original that will probably group less well and has mk1 scope?”

    It’s comments like this that can make one question why some ‘friends’ are friends!
    Last edited by Micheal Doyne; 11-13-2020 at 10:53 AM.

  15. #10
    Legacy Member champ0608's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Last On
    03-05-2024 @ 09:03 AM
    Location
    Arizona
    Age
    36
    Posts
    101
    Real Name
    Jamie
    Local Date
    03-28-2024
    Local Time
    05:26 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Micheal Doyne View Post
    “You say your Long Branch mk1*(t) clone shoots very well, so why do you need an expensive original that will probably group less well and has mk1 scope?”

    It’s comments like this that can make one question why some ‘friends’ are friends!
    The good angel and the bad angel on my shoulder recently had a similar debate.

    I had a perfectly nice and extremely accurate US Marine 1903 Sniper replica. I shot it regularly and really enjoyed it. Then came along an extremely rare, original (though needing some restoration) Marine 1903 Unertl Sniper rifle. The bad angel on my shoulder won the debate, and the replica rifle had to be sold to help fund the new purchase.

    I know I'll never shoot the original nearly as much as I did the replica, and that's somewhat sad, but I couldn't be happier finding, buying, and restoring an original.

  16. The Following 3 Members Say Thank You to champ0608 For This Useful Post:


+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 5 1 2 3 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Savage No 1
    By P246 in forum The Lee Enfield Knowledge Library Collectors Forum
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 03-28-2017, 05:24 PM
  2. Savage No. 4 Mk I (T)
    By Tom Jackson in forum The Lee Enfield Knowledge Library Collectors Forum
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: 04-06-2016, 12:50 PM
  3. Savage No4 Mk1*
    By yoopercollector in forum The Lee Enfield Knowledge Library Collectors Forum
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 03-18-2015, 10:43 PM
  4. Savage no 4 mk 1
    By sharpsguy in forum The Lee Enfield Knowledge Library Collectors Forum
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 12-11-2013, 03:48 PM
  5. Savage No4 Mk 1 T
    By Craig Eberhardt in forum The Lee Enfield Knowledge Library Collectors Forum
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 09-20-2013, 06:18 AM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Raven Rocks