Savage No.4 (t)

[Lee Enfield]

Thank you very much, that confirms a lot of my thoughts. I’m just waiting to hear back when I can give it a visit. From memory it is a 0C#### Mk1, has a 5 groove English barrel, an S51 stamp and some numbers on butt (maybe scope maybe s/n). The receiver side wall appeared to have been meanly ground during the application of the pads, and then re finished. Scope was I think a 1/2.

So this is from 30s in hand just over a year ago, so we will see.

---------- Post added at 08:02 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:52 AM ----------

I tried to explain to a friend why I was frantically reading up on savage (t)s and got this for my pains

“You say your Long Branch mk1*(t) clone shoots very well, so why do you need an expensive original that will probably group less well and has mk1 scope?”

It’s comments like this that can make one question why some ‘friends’ are friends!

count the grooves in the barrel. With a serial number that low it probably has a 6groove Savage barrel.

[Micheal Doyne]

count the grooves in the barrel. With a serial number that low it probably has a 6groove Savage barrel.

Shouldn’t it have been replaced with a British 5 groove if it is a real ful t?

[Roger Payne]

The very early rifles came out of the Savage factory with six groove barrels. And, whilst it shouldn't have happened, a few with two groove barrels slipped through the net as well. I have owned both Savage & Maltby rifles with two groove barrels (from new) that were converted to 4T's. I do wonder if that is the reason why many Savage rifles are found with replacement UK manufacture barrels on them - because they were noted to have two groovers & so were earmarked for 'upgrading' with new production five groove examples.

[Lee Enfield]

The very early rifles came out of the Savage factory with six groove barrels. And, whilst it shouldn't have happened, a few with two groove barrels slipped through the net as well. I have owned both Savage & Maltby rifles with two groove barrels (from new) that were converted to 4T's. I do wonder if that is the reason why many Savage rifles are found with replacement UK manufacture barrels on them - because they were noted to have two groovers & so were earmarked for 'upgrading' with new production five groove examples.

I have 1942 mkI"T" Savages with 6groove, 1945 dated brit 5groove and 2groove MkI*

[Micheal Doyne]

So is there any one thing I can hope for to (assuming it’s not been faked) prove this is a t, and not a scope less t?

[Roger Payne]

Michael, assuming the seller is not expecting a definite yes or no on the spot (which would put me off, for a start), then get as many photo's of it as you can, including butt socket & body side wall views, & views of the pads with the scope & bracket removed. If you then post them here you'll be snowed under with informed opinions!

I've only seen 2 groove barrels on Savage Mk1* T's, at least to date. Have seriously thinned out my collection of 4T's but have retained a 41 Mk1 six groover, & two 42 Mk1*'s; one being a 'Less Telescope' rifle, & the other an example that was scoped up. TBH I can't remember for certain without looking, but I think the scopeless example has a replacement 45 UK barrel & the scoped one still retains its original two groover. If a rifle definitely has a replacement barrel on it we can only speculate as to what might have been on it originally of course....

[Lance]

The best confirmation is a matching scope can! Second, is prior to buying get a ton of pic's and post them here!

[Micheal Doyne]

Sadly no can included. We have a cheeky lock down here so I will have to see how easily I can get in to see the rifle.

[Micheal Doyne]

So, I’ve seen it, pictures to follow. However in the mean time what are the general views on the following:
- all the savage marks once could with for
- only t Mark I recognise is the ghost of a number on the wrist
- fultons regulated stamp
- in my opinion a re barrel
- re bedded with wood platform1/3 up and floated there after
- No3 bolt head

assuming it is a t thoughts on the above would be welcomed.

As I enjoy historic military rifle shooting the rebedding is the largest potential issue.

[Alan de Enfield]

There are folks with much more experience than I, but for me there are a couple of alarm bells :

1) Rebarreled - when and by whom ?
2) Regulated by Fultons. (Fultons have 'built' No4Ts to order).
3) Peter Laidler has previously said a No3 bolt head would not have been accepted on a 4T by a military armourer.