Inner Band Problem on my No.1 MK.3

[greggordon52]

During the pandemic I have been at home...the wife keeps me hopping but I have had a few spare minutes to start working through THE COMPLETE BOOK ON LEE ENFIELD ACCURIZING. In so doing I discovered the the inner band was missing it's spring and washer so I looked for and found a set and when I installed them the barrel poked up at the muzzle end so much that putting on the nose piece was a fantasy. Has anyone else had this problem?

The rifle is a pretty good shooter already so I am not sure why I should not just use the inner band and screw without the spring and washer or, if it is deemed necessary to "dampen harmonic vibrations", how to install them so that I can get the nose piece on again. I should mention that the barrel already has enough rise on it that the muzzle presses against the top of the nosepiece opening. My understanding is that the muzzle should be centered in the nose piece opening.

I don't really want to start excavating the recess in the forend that houses the screw, spring and washer for the inner band. Any thoughts?

Information

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[browningautorifle]

https://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=72495

You need to stop creating new threads on the same subject, you'll confuse the issue. They'll find you and answer you, I promise...

[Bruce_in_Oz]

Put the nose-cap on before tightening the screw!

Has the wood been routed / gouged out for a heavier barrel? If so, this will allow you to pull it down further than intended.

Do you have the plunger and spring up at the front of the fore-end?

Check those other links before despairing too much.

[greggordon52]

Bruce, thank you for your response.

Nose-cap: Would putting on the nose cap first create further tension in the barrel? The inner band spring & washer push the muzzle end approx 1 inch above the forend. In fact, they are so large that they make it impossible to mate the screw into the inner band.

Wood been routed: The forend appears to be quite close fitting and has no obvious marks of having been routed or gouged to make room for a heavier barrel.

Plunger and Spring: Yes the plunger and spring are present.

Despair: I will try to keep it in check in the future...my bad.

So far I have tried the spring without the washer but find it still prevents the barrel from dropping low enough to install the nose-cap. I currently have a rubber o-ring in place of the spring and washer and it will allow the barrel to drop down into its groove so that the nose-cap and front hand guard can be put in place. My theory is that the rubber o-ring may serve to provide a similar dampening effect to the "harmonic vibrations" referred to in Wadham's book on Accurizing the Enfield.

[Alan de Enfield]

Is the forend numbered to the action ? (it should be)

It sounds like it is a non-military rebuild (maybe a rebuild of a sporter) and the 'builder' didn't know how to stock-up a No1 rifle, having the same problems as you are having so left out the bits he couldn't fit in.

[greggordon52]

Is the forend numbered to the action ? (it should be)

It sounds like it is a non-military rebuild (maybe a rebuild of a sporter) and the 'builder' didn't know how to stock-up a No1 rifle, having the same problems as you are having so left out the bits he couldn't fit in.

That is an interesting theory. I will look.

[Bruce_in_Oz]

There was an enormous amount of hand-fitting of wood and metal in the Lee Enfields. These rifles were also built to the service practice of developing a "generic" tuning of the rifle to a specific, mass produced ammunition. Not like "sporting" rifles.

The inner band combo, the plunger and stud retained by the nose-cap and the nose-cap itself, were all made "just so" as part of that tuning operation. 3.5 MOA or better, with a "select" batch of "issue ball" was the test, Perhaps fitting precision-made metal components to a lump of wood and expecting the assembly to "behave itself" seems like a fools errand, these days, but, for the most part, it worked. If it delivered 3.5MOA or better from a steady rest AND the group could be zeroed with the simple swapping of fore-sight blades within limits, it was "good enough for Government work"

What it does with "other / non-authorized" ammo was not their concern, If your rifle is set-up exactly to "Mil-Spec", then it will probably work to "Mil Spec" with the authorized ammo. If, unlike most of us, you have a pallet or two of fresh Mk Vll ball tucked away in a cool, dry place, you are on a winner.

However....

Armourers of yore were more than mere "parts-swappers". They were highly-trained tradesmen who, when not maintaining a fleet of small arms, could be found fabricating Unit barbecues, workshop gizmos for the vehicle mechanics, etc., etc.

[Alan de Enfield]

Armourers of yore were more than mere "parts-swappers". They were highly-trained tradesmen who, when not maintaining a fleet of small arms, could be found fabricating Unit barbecues, workshop gizmos for the vehicle mechanics, etc., etc.

From WW1 instructions to armourers :

Duties Of Armourers
Armourers will perform the following duties :-
a) Execute all repairs to the arms (including lances, pistols, swords, and scabbards) in possession of their respective units ; and perform any other work, within their capabilities, required to the equipment of their units, and repairs to helmets and chains, booby chains, lancer cap chains and the brasswork on the lancer cap. Execute repairs to bicycles as directed in paragraph 7.
b) Inspect :
a. Quarterly – All rifles, pistols, sword-bayonets and scabbards in use.
b. Monthly – All bicycles on charge.
In each case defects are to be made good and a brief report of the general result of the examination will be rendered to the Commanding Officer.

And just for interest the 1918 "Twin Maxim Tricycle"

[greggordon52]

That is an interesting theory. I will look.

I did not see any identifying numbers on the forend after examining it's exterior. Nor did I see any numbers on my No.4 forend's exterior. I did not examine either forend's interior (i.e., I did not remove the barrel). Where would one expect to find a serial number?

[Alan de Enfield]

I did not see any identifying numbers on the forend after examining it's exterior. Nor did I see any numbers on my No.4 forend's exterior. I did not examine either forend's interior (i.e., I did not remove the barrel). Where would one expect to find a serial number?

On a No1 it will be on the 'outside' of the wood near the nose-piece.


Instruction to Armourers

17. Each rifle must invariably be used with the breech bolt bearing the rifle number, otherwise the
lugs may not bear evenly, and the rifle may fire to the right or left; the distance from the bolt to the
end of the chamber may also be affected. When, owing to loss or damage, it becomes necessary to fit
another bolt to a rifle, the rifle should be fired for accuracy on the range. The fore-end and nose-cap
are also fitted and numbered to the rifle. Accuracy tests must always be carried out when either or both
of these components are exchanged.

18. When spare bolts, sight leaves, fore-ends and nose-caps are fitted to rifles, they will be marked
with the body number. When fitting a spare barrel with body, the whole of the components before
mentioned will be re-marked with the new body number.