PPCo Scope – Restoration Thoughts

[hatrick]

So I picked up this PPCo scope from a fellow board member a couple of years ago in hopes of finding a mount... a search which still goes on. So after reading the thread provided by ValleySniper on disassembling it (thanks so much by the way) I started thinking about restoring it since it is already pretty well compromised and I wanted to address some of the lingering rust spots. I just wanted to get peoples thoughts before doing anything and I also have a bunch of questions about it and if I did decide to restore it.

For starters, any ideas why there are three solder spots on the rear objective housing ring? Not sure why those are there or what was going on prior to soldering.

Obviously the ring that normally goes on the tube right in front of the rear objective housing has been removed as you can see the markings where it once was.

I'm also curious about the holes on the bottom side of the scope which are slightly offset and not directly on the bottom.

So if I was to restore it here is a punch list of things I would need to figure out:
1) Was the tube blued or painted. I suspect salt blued by the looks of what little finish is left.
2) The objective and ocular housing and saddle look to all be a semi-gloss black paint. Anyone know a good paint choice. I'm thinking a semi-gloss engine paint that has ceramic added for durability.
3) How should I go about filling the holes in the tube? I don't have any welding tools so I'm hoping there is some other way or material that will also be ok if the tube needs to be re-blued.
4) I need to get the missing ring for in front of the rear objective housing made up. I wish I had a lathe as it looks pretty easy but not having any machining equipment that will take a bit of figuring. I also need to find out the thickness of that ring. I can tell the width from the markings that are still on the tube. I assume that ring was silver soldered onto the tube.

Aside from the cosmetics, the functionality of the scope seems fine and the optics are pretty clear and crisp. Everything seems to work properly and if I take it apart I'm sure a good lens cleaning will help even more.

Any help and advice would be greatly appreciated.

Information

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[Surpmil]

As our friends in the UK have hopefully hit the sack by this time, I'll go first.

The solder on the ocular lens housing is probably an attempt to secure it, with or without screws underneath the solder. These housings were notorious for coming loose as they were fairly weighty and the mounting threads very fine and easily over-tightened. Recoil alone would tend to shake them loose over time.

The screw holes are typical locating screws for the PPCo. mount. Probably provided so as to reliably locate the mounts on the tube for soldering by semi-skilled workers. IIRC the offset pair are probably the originals. The scope was clearly moved in the rings at some point, either to suit a sporting user or a sporting rifle.

I wouldn't worry about the extra holes as they'd be covered by the reproduction PPCo. rings you'll be buying from Dr. Payne.

Someone has filed all those extra notches in the range scale obviously, also proof of civilian use post-war.

The rings would have been sofl-soldered on, not silver-soldered, which involves much higher temps than soft solder.

The tube would have been rust-blued or "blackened" originally.

The degree of gloss on "stove enamels" varied. IIRC some were polished after and some were not. This finish might also be a bitumen based enamel such as was used on Stanley planes etc., among others. There are videos on YT about how to redo such enamelling today.

Another treatment was etching the brass with an acid solution which produced a dark grey coating which when covered with clear lacquer looked quite "black".

That's all from me, as Benny used to say.

[Roger Payne]

I'll second that.

I don't have any sets of PPCo rings at the moment, but am hoping to have some bases in the not too distant future so long as the imminent batch comes off. If these happen, & if they are ok, I will look in to getting more rings done as well.

[hatrick]

Thanks so much for the great info and assistance. Upon close examination, I do see another set of holes centered on the bottom of the scope (you kind make them out in the pictures I posted but they are more dark spots as they were filled with some grease). I believe these were the holes from the original mount and the two sets of double holes that are slightly offset from the bottom of the scope must be from where it was used post war with some sporting mount. The good thing as you noted that these will all be covered if and when I find a complete mount and base set or with a bit of luck Roger gets PPCo mount & base sets made up again.

Also, after taking the objective housing off I can see that the solder on the outside is likely from where someone had some screws to sty to lock that housing to the tube. Odd as they didn't drill and tap into the tube at all so they must have been super short pressure locking type screws. I should be able to easily remove the solder or carefully smooth that out before painting. Probably best to wait on bluing the tube until I get a mount set since that needs to be soldered on as well.

Thanks again for all the help. I really look forward to getting this back in action. Also a big thanks to Dr. Payne who is always so helpful and all his efforts getting the various mounts made up is sincerely appreciated.

[hatrick]

I totally forgot that I still need the dimensions (mostly just the outer diameter) of that rear tube ring that sits right in front of the rear objective housing. I'm going to have to try to find someone that can make one up for me since I don't have a lathe or any machining tools. I'm guessing that once I can get that made that it gets soldered onto the tube.

Thanks

[Surpmil]

All things considered, you might want to leave at least the brass parts as they are. Once the rings are in place, most of what is now white will be covered and some careful work with cold blues etc. might cover up the rest of the bare metal.

A total refinishing would be unwise I think.

[hatrick]

Good point. I think that may the best route. Just a bit of touch up once the mount is in place since as you noted most of the bare tube will be covered.

I guess the only major thing would be having that missing tube ring made up.

Thanks for your advice. I’m glad I asked before doing something stupid.

[Roger Payne]

Yes, I'd agree with the above comments as well. I learnt the hard way in my youth that when an item is patinated/corroded, then you do not do a full refinish, at least, not unless you are able to take off enough surface metal to remove the pitting. If you refinish over that it will look truly hideous, I can assure you. Bluing has to go on over a perfectly smooth flat surface in order to look at all attractive. In restoring these rusty ex-Indian No32's I manage to get the majority of the pitting out of them before bead blasting the tubes, but it takes me around 4 to 8 hours of painstaking hand filing, carefully rocking the file so as not to put flats in the surface. Some can be done quicker by spinning the stripped tube in the lathe, but you can't do it all that way, & you can't do the middle portion of the tube without risking losing the original engraving. Additionally, too much meat removed may result in the rings being a loose fit. All in all, if it were me, I'd just do as little as I needed to.......