Issues with Brass Resize/Trim - Hornady Die

[Bruce_in_Oz]

The fun part of the .45 ACP and the 1911 pistol is looking at the original specs for the round and the chamber.

There is NO "shoulder" at the forward end of the chamber. How does it "headspace"?

Old John Moses was designing a MILITARY pistol that had to be able to digest ammunition of pretty-much any origin.

It was also designed to feed from a magazine, not be hand-fed and then have the slide slam forward. H even built in a trick to handle that if it were tried. How far in can an up-to-spec extractor ram a round? Don't know and don't intend to find out in a hurry.

Now, go to the back of the slide and push the striker forward as far as it will go. A bit more than 40 thou, last time i looked.

So, there is a bit of "flexibility" built into the old girl. .45 ACP is a relatively low-pressure round, so, if you manage to fire the thing with "excessive headspace", what will happen?

I run a 9mm 1911, so I have never tried to do all of this.

However, does anyone have drawings / dimensions for Georg Luger's original 9mm Parabellum chamber and cartridge?

As Mark Novak says, "Down the rabbit-hole!"

[ssgross]

My Hornady #15 pilot is the same as the OPt. #13 is 0.334 and fits 9mm brass, albeit a bit loose.
I think #15 is for .357. As I stated earlier, I think the "pistol" pilots in the Hornady trimmer set are likely for use with revolvers firing the FTX bullets, and not for trimming pistol brass in general. The Hornady 10th edition gives special trim lengths and loads for FTX's in 45 colt, as well as for 357 Mag - but curiously not for 38 spc. I haven't checked all revolver calibers in the book. I have a box of Hornady critical defense 38 spc with FTX bullets - so the load exists. I need to measure but would guess the cases are shorter to allow the cylinder to turn with the longer, pointier bullets.

[TDH]

I love the Hornady case prep center and the powder measure and the sonic bath. I bought one set of Hornady des and nothing but trouble O would rather use Lee dies and yes Carbine brass must be trimmed and trimmed to exact tolerences

[usabaker]

I'm sorry but this sort of escapes me...trimming pistol brass. I don't understand why. Pistol brass will usually be lost or crack long before it's overall length becomes a problem. It's not as high pressure as rifle so it's not going to go through the same transformations as rifle. I've loaded my share for sure, 9, 38/357, 40, 45, 44 mag...others in smaller quantities. No one else I know of trims pistol brass either.

I would suggest just using them as is and save the time and effort. Yes, the pilot needs to be smaller than the case mouth, just like rifle. You could always just do a precision grind of the offending pilot to a specific diameter...

Hi Jim, I just leaned the "rude" way on a handgun forum that there is no need to size pistol brass, being somewhat new to reloading for pistols I did not know this. Even though I wrote in my post that I have never handload 9mm the forum member that responded evidently has a Ph.D. in Psychology because he diagnosed me as having "Compulsive behavior" because I asked the same question I asked here.

I have reloaded is the 44 MAG and did trim them within SAMI Spec. My reason for trimming was to square off the case mouth and to have all the cases the same length. Since 9mm Luger headspace from the case mouth, I thought this might add to consistency between fired rounds.

Last time I leave this forum HA!

I guess I was just applying the way I load my rifle cartridges to pistol.

Hornady replied back today as well and said almost exactly what you, Bruce, and Cinders said; not required, or trim before sizing, and turn down the pilot to fit.

Thank you all on the forum for responding, especially without diagnosing me with a disorder of some sort. I have learned something new and save myself a heap of work.

---------- Post added at 10:55 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:52 PM ----------

Now to experiment on how much to flare the mouth for these Blue Bullets that I have never used.

[Daan Kemp]

Just enough for bullets to fit in the case mouth before seating. Too much allows earlier cracking I believe.

[ssgross]

Wow. That's a crazy deal they have on those bullet. I looked at the 230gr 45. Comes out to ~10.8 cents per round. (for the big box, 11.6 for the smaller one). I found that curiously low, and pulled out my calculator. Bullet alloy at rotometals is ~$18+ per 5lb ingot today - which is about 11.8 cents per round.
I've never seen a bullet manufacturer, even the plain cast bullet places, sell for cheaper than doing it yourself. Crazy world. I was just laughing the other day grocery shopping for New Years dinner - prime rib roast cost less at the restaurant, cooked for you with all the sides, than it does raw at the grocery store right now.
Maybe I fat fingered my calculator, or I need to make a visit to Baker's psychologist in that other forum . Let us know how they shoot?

[browningautorifle]

Too much allows earlier cracking I believe.

That's right, or maybe cracking at the time...

[usabaker]

Wow. That's a crazy deal they have on those bullets. I looked at the 230gr 45. Comes out to ~10.8 cents per round. (for the big box, 11.6 for the smaller one). I found that curiously low, and pulled out my calculator. Bullet alloy at rotometals is ~$18+ per 5lb ingot today - which is about 11.8 cents per round.
I've never seen a bullet manufacturer, even the plain cast bullet places, sell for cheaper than doing it yourself. Crazy world. I was just laughing the other day grocery shopping for New Years dinner - prime rib roast cost less at the restaurant, cooked for you with all the sides than it does raw at the grocery store right now.
Maybe I fat-fingered my calculator, or I need to make a visit to Baker's psychologist in that other forum. Let us know how they shoot?

I will if I ever get them, I sent them an email asking for shipment status since I ordered on December 16, and in looking that the order page it states Processing rather then shipped.

UPDATE: Just go this in my email "Due to increased demand, we are running approximately 14-16 weeks behind on the 115 RN. Your order was placed on 12/15/2020 so it should ship late March to mid April. "

GEZZZ -- looks like I won't be testing them anytime soon! I do have some Hornady 115 RN coming too though. No matter I only have 100 small pistol primers SO maybe primers will be available again by March/April.... at a reasonable price that is.

I'm going to have to look into the price for cooked Prime Rib because it was near $80.00 US for a 3 bone at VONS just before Christmas. My wife is addicted to Prime Rib so we have it on Thanksgiving and Christmas every year.

Here is the Christmas 3 bone on the rotisserie...

Attachment 113712Attachment 113711

[usabaker]

Just enough for bullets to fit in the case mouth before seating. Too much allows earlier cracking I believe.

I've never seated polymer coated bullets so I'll need to see how much flair it takes to not break or cut the polymer. Should be interesting.

[TDH]

USBaker Try Extreme their 115 gr 9's run like $48 for 500 and I had them within a week that was in Oct.

Primers oh primers where art thou primers. I have a half brick of large pistol primers left and a brick and half of small pistol primers left * sigh*