BSA Shirley: T series: # right side of stock, also NORI?

[Darlington]

Attachment 115585

Hi, looking at a T serial number series BSA Shirley rifle. Matching numbers (bolt, receiver, mag and wood) but has 3 interesting things with it.
1. Looks like the wrist read 1944 originally but was restamped 5 over the 4.
2. Right side of buttstock has what looks like NORIZ?
3. Right side of buttstock has 1254 stamped it
Both wrist stamps are right next to wrist socket.

Its a really clean rifle.
thanks

Information

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[Alan de Enfield]

Could the marking be "NORE"

There was a 'NORE Command' which held inter-service shooting competitions. I have one of their shooting-medals somewhere (I've been looking for it for hours)

The medal has 'crossed Lee Enfield Rifles' on it and something like "NORE command shooting" on the other side (from memory)

In the past I tried some research on NORE but all I can find is this Wikipedia entry :

Commander-in-Chief, The Nore - Wikipedia

[Darlington]

thanks for the reply. I have been looking at the impression at various angles, different light etc and I think it might be NOR13?, but your NORE is certainly an option.

[Alan de Enfield]

thanks for the reply. I have been looking at the impression at various angles, different light etc and I think it might be NOR13?, but your NORE is certainly an option.

Or Maybe it was Rifle rack no 13 in the NORE Shooting team armoury ?

(Gives you something to investigate anyway !!)

We did things like that.
Here is Rifle rack no 7 in the RAF Conningsby shooting team armoury

[Roger Payne]

These observations are limited to just my own personal experience, so may be subject to revision from contributions from others, but as far as I have been able to determine, the year end 1944 to 1945 occurred when BSA were producing P & R prefixed rifles. As might be expected, there is likely to be some blurring as there would almost certainly have been more than one production line in operation. I came to this conclusion having owned over the years rifles with both P & R prefixes dated 1944, AND other examples of these rifles that bore 1945 dates with the same P or R prefixes. Most of these have been 4 T's, but as rifles for conversion were extracted from the general run of production, they are probably reasonably representative of the general situation. The OP's rifle could represent a little more of that 'blurring' for various reasons; a rifle or rifle body that was delayed a little in numbering & assembly & then judiciously re-dated, perhaps??

As a general observation, it is not too rare to see dates altered or 'completed later on', officially, particularly on BSA made rifles. SMLE's with the last digit hand stamped are quite common.

Incidentally, I've assumed that the OP meant that the '5' was stamped over the second '4' in '1944', making '1945' & not over the first, changing the date to '1954' which would generate a lot more questions!

[husk]

Similar markings on this one, but no clue what it means.Attachment 115608

[Darlington]

This is why forums are great. So much good info. Thank you to all the people here and their collective knowledge.Learning is the best. And the rifle is mine now, just too nice and the right price.
1. NOR13 would make sense then. I have posted some more photos of the rifle for everyone.
2. Also yes 1944 to 1945.
3. All matching
4. Has the simplified rear sling swivel.

Attachment 115621Attachment 115622Attachment 115623Attachment 115624Attachment 115625

[Roger Payne]

Very nice clean looking rifle Darlington. Just out of curiosity, does it also have the serial number engraved on it, either on the butt socket, or on the body side wall by the 'No4 Mk1'? Later rifles tended to have the serial engraved, although as it was generally very shallow the number was often over stamped to make it clearer.

[Darlington]

Yes it does, very faint under the paint. So the serial on stamped on wrist socket and looks like electropencilled on side wall.Posted a picture below and the bolt.

I got lucky with it, not many people seem interested in enfields here.

I keep a sheet on each of my rifles, marking etc. Here is the info on this rifle so far. Please feel free to correct me.

BSA Shirley T33354:
Fore stock: #T33354 on fore stock in 2 places. WL: Wilkinsons Ltd. on metal. C. Y.
Top Wood: SM: Singer Manufacturing.
Butt stock: N49: H. Morris and Co. Ltd. Glasgow. Crown . M37. E. 1254 right side. NOR13 1254.
Bolt: #T33354. 0 head. Crossed flags proof mark on head, 4A safety. M bolt handle. Crossed flags proof mark on handle.
Receiver: Faint electropencil No4 Mk1. T3354. 303 Brit U.K.
Receiver Wrist: M47C. 1944 over stamped 5. #T33354
Magazine #T33354. Spine . U.C.F. follower
Front Sight: ROFB: Royal Ordnance Factory Birmingham.
Rear Sight: B, Birmingham Metal and Munitions Co. Ltd.
Mid Band: N79. Viners Ltd. Sheffield. UK.

Attachment 115627Attachment 115626

Very nice clean looking rifle Darlington. Just out of curiosity, does it also have the serial number engraved on it, either on the butt socket, or on the body side wall by the 'No4 Mk1'? Later rifles tended to have the serial engraved, although as it was generally very shallow the number was often over stamped to make it clearer.

[Roger Payne]

Nice you have the original bolt & a zero bolt head, too. Not sure what the ROFB is without looking at the texts, but in this context the 'B' on the rear sight is indicative of BSA manufacture. Birmingham Metal & Munitions did indeed use a 'B' an an identifier, but on small arms ammunition head stamps during the WW1 era. (They made a lot of .303" ammunition during The First World War).