No.4 Mk1 M47C rifle selected for conversion

[Skwan]

No.4 Mk1 M47C rifle that was sporterized before I acquired it. Would like your input on this interesting conversation piece. 5 groove barrel. No stock markings at all to show, the wood was heavily sporterized.

Information

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[Roger Payne]

Have seen a few like this, & have one body that I must one day rebuild into a complete rifle. The few I've seen have been 1945 V or X prefix. Maybe selected for conversion but the contracts cancelled before it could be carried out??

The fact that they all bear the D6E examiner's mark suggests that perhaps it wasn't always applied at the end of the conversion process.....

[Brian B]

Has the "TR" been barred out?

[Skwan]

What does it mean when the "TR" is barred out, the rifle was rejected?

[Roger Payne]

The TR has been officially cancelled on mine too, but the other markings such as the D6E & the S on the cut-off block, are there & intact. An interesting piece of Lee Enfield history.

They could be specification rejects, but if so it took a long time for H&H to notice this...........you'd think they'd have determined that before they added all of the stamps indicating its imminent conversion into a 4T. All of the ones I've seen or heard of (only about four or five) are late rifles dated 1945 with a late serial number prefix, & I think it's more likely the cancellation of the contracts in April 1946 just occurred before they could be converted, resulting in them being returned to service as standard No4's. This would also explain the justification of barring out the TR as it indicates a 'Telescope Rifle', which these were not. I'd be interested to hear what others think though, as this is all just supposition on my part.

[Surpmil]

Have one the same here of which I've posted photos before. 1945, X33---, TR barred out with the usual _._ mark, S on cutoff block, and both examiner's marks.

[Lee Enfield]

I had a 1947 BSA for a while, that I bought due to the markings...

https://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=47488

[Roger Payne]

I'd completely forgotten about that old thread (not surprising with my memory)! Did the rifle indeed turn out to be a P prefix? If so it would suggest the body was manufactured at the cusp of the year change from 1944 to '45. That is assuming BSA didn't use/re-use available 'old' serial numbers. Can you recall if there might ever have been a '4' or '5' under the '7'? Just wondering if it could have been a standard wartime produced body that for some reason didn't get completed until '47, & then got redated when it was............Interesting either way.

I've only ever seen one post WW2 produced BSA No4 & that was also dated 1947, but had a very late letter prefix serial, either a 'Y' or a 'Z'. Unfortunately, it was years ago & I can't recall any longer which of the two it was. I would have been tempted to buy it out of curiosity, but it was on the table of a leading dealer at an arms fair.......& they had already deactivated it! This example did not appear to have had an earlier date over stamped, & was cleanly marked '1947'.

I suppose if BSA had a market just after the war, wherever that may be, they'd assemble whatever parts they had lying about. Still a puzzle about how the D6E stamp got onto such a late rifle.......maybe wartime manufacture -----> arrived at H&H too late for conversion to be effected -----> somehow ends up back at BSA -----> refurbished as a new rifle for post WW2 sale???

Curious & curiouser!

[Lee Enfield]

I'd completely forgotten about that old thread (not surprising with my memory)! Did the rifle indeed turn out to be a P prefix? If so it would suggest the body was manufactured at the cusp of the year change from 1944 to '45. That is assuming BSA didn't use/re-use available 'old' serial numbers. Can you recall if there might ever have been a '4' or '5' under the '7'? Just wondering if it could have been a standard wartime produced body that for some reason didn't get completed until '47, & then got redated when it was............Interesting either way.

I've only ever seen one post WW2 produced BSA No4 & that was also dated 1947, but had a very late letter prefix serial, either a 'Y' or a 'Z'. Unfortunately, it was years ago & I can't recall any longer which of the two it was. I would have been tempted to buy it out of curiosity, but it was on the table of a leading dealer at an arms fair.......& they had already deactivated it! This example did not appear to have had an earlier date over stamped, & was cleanly marked '1947'.

I suppose if BSA had a market just after the war, wherever that may be, they'd assemble whatever parts they had lying about. Still a puzzle about how the D6E stamp got onto such a late rifle.......maybe wartime manufacture -----> arrived at H&H too late for conversion to be effected -----> somehow ends up back at BSA -----> refurbished as a new rifle for post WW2 sale???

Curious & curiouser!

I can't recall what the serial number ended up being - I can reach out to the fellow who bought it to see...

I'm of the understanding that the 1950's No4Mk2 rifles with no manufacturers markings are probably BSA "commercially manufactured" rifles.

[Alan de Enfield]

I can't recall what the serial number ended up being - I can reach out to the fellow who bought it to see...

I'm of the understanding that the 1950's No4Mk2 rifles with no manufacturers markings are probably BSA "commercially manufactured" rifles.

It must have been prior to 1955.

An old post from PL

BSA. They were required to retain and maintain the old No4 manufacturing capacity on a care and maintenance basis for 10 years after the last rifle production - so in 1955 it was sold on to POF