Inland 2 Rivet to 4 Rivet Handguard Changeover

[painter777]

Things are not good out here.

Pretty bad out here because of Covid. Michigan is getting hit hard. Especially bad near us........ We live close to a college- MSU.
Governor 'Hitmer' is talking about another Complete Shutdown. They want us wearing Double Masks, even if your in your own backyard.
This State is killing private business owners.
But plenty are making a Killing on the extra Unemployment benefits and added funds from the Gov.
Would you want to go back to work if your pulling in 2 to 3X your normal income, without the costs of getting to and from work ?
Only good thing about this is there is no more Rush hour traffic jams. And today the Wife and I got the word we can get our first shots tomorrow.

I hope your Buddy pulls thru.

[DaveHH]

Thanks Charlie, he was about 30 minutes from dying when they got to him. He is alive but all screwed up from their "Care". Just heard yesterday that the people in charge have been giving vaccine to people who have already had the virus or actually have it now. Six women are all messed up with blood that won't stop bleeding and one already died. Apparently the vaccine isn't as great as they say it was nor as safe. So all of the people (millions) who have been vaccinated still have to wear masks and isolate. A disease with a survival rate of 99.9 % and they are still killing people with it. My personal opinion is that it hasn't got a thing to do with health but everything to do with controlling people. I may have mentioned this before but last Feb I watched the super bowl on Sunday, had my annual physical on Monday (everything was fine), played 9 holes of golf on Tuesday and the next morning had 102 temp and coughing. What followed was a month long illness with lung pain and coughing unlike any flu I've ever had, a sore throat that was unlike anything I'd ever experienced in my life. The doctors at Kaiser said "We don't know what this is, but it's really bad". The woman doctor's husband had just finished having the same affliction. A couple of weeks later they decided that covid had arrived. When the throat issue drove me to the ER, everyone was masked up and the ER was full. My doctor and I both think that I've had the virus and I'm not about to take either shot. I don't take flu shots at all so I've had a lot of flu over the years. This was definitely not the flu. My sense of smell is non-existent, I will smell smoke and it is so bad I wake up and check that the house or yard is not afire.

[AD-4NA]

Sorry to hear that and about your friend Dave...

Thanks gents, I had a reply ready until my draft got erased and life got in the way with a family member in the hospital to put a damper on things.

I would suggest finding Chris Albright's CC issue on the 51000,000+ Inland Number group. I don't have mine handy but it is in the 361 series if I recall. He goes through everything in a very comprehensive and accurate account of what you should find on your Inland. My 5.4 was correct down to the springs. It really is a fine work.

Thanks DaveHH, I'll look that one up when I get the CC Newsletters, I don't have any of them as of yet.


Thanks painter777. I've been around collecting military firearms and military vehicles long enough to know that the factory did not magically swap over all at once! When it doubt "earlier rather than later" seems to be a good motto. I just don't want to judge any carbine wrongly or swap any of the wrong parts out due to inadequate information. (Not that I am one of those build it up from scratch chronic parts swappers.)

I wonder, was there more than just one carbine reported in that range with a 4 rivet hand guard? I am curious whether the was a statistically relevant number of them with 4 rivet hand guards in that serial number range or just 5,179,xxx.

Anyway, if this carbine is what it looks like then literally only two parts were swapped out in later upgrades: the rotary safety (and plunger assembly/spring maybe) and bayonet lug barrel band. It had an "H.I." four rivet handguard on it, hence this thread.


Speaking of which, while you guys are here, long Magazine catch/safety Plunger Assembly or a short one for serial number 5,256,xxx? I believe the long ones were introduced later concurrently with the rotary safety, correct? But now I'm second guessing the numbers again. I'm guessing the same issue of the CCNL would cover this.

I'm kind of disappointed actually, I've seen a lot of later production Inlands get treated (or mistreated) and sold as mixmasters. Getting deals this way is one good thing but seeing nice carbines abused is not. It may be the same way for late Winchesters.

[DaveHH]

It is getting to the point that the quest for an original doesn't mean much. Each one stands on its own. It becomes a fool's errand to make a perfect corrected gun. Too many fake parts, too few people wanting them and folks seem to just enjoy owning a carbine and shooting it. Every corrected gun trying to be sold as an original gets exposed sooner or later. Every once in a while someone sells a corrected gun to some guy on the excitement plan and the buyer gets hosed big time but is as happy as a clam at high tide. There was so much part trading going on and the records are so sketchy that its a wonder we identify any of these guns. Imagine what a type 1 ejector looks like in a box full of 2s and 3s? Good luck. Today when I see a carbine, I don't care if it has an incorrect part, who cares? It is 77 years old and still working. I was a complete jerk about correcting because you could see what was coming down the road. I should have kept my opinions to myself. Seth was right...FAKE! Things are much better today on these forums, because before, it was chaos. People were arguing, about stupid stuff that couldn't be proven one way or the other. Everyone had an opinion and let us all know what it was. I used to marvel about how polite and knowledgeable David B. was. Never got too excited. Brian was more straightforward, like there's a bunch of guys arguing about if a dog was rabid, Brian would show up and just shoot it and walk away. I liked that approach too. Why reward foolishness?
Anyway carbines are all over $1000 each today, way over that in some places. In Calif. you just don't see carbines. That's good in a way, because the real value of the M1 carbine was in the making of it. "War Baby" reads like a novel, it is beautiful. It tells us a story that could never be duplicated today, people are too stupid and too indifferent to waste their time working for a cause. Talk about women's rights: half of the people making these 6M guns were housewives, most who had never done any kind of work like this in their lives. People cared about America and loved it. Today the important thing is that stupid plastic toy that talks. Men gave their lives on beaches and hills that nobody recognized. Today an old lady will be mugged on the street and men won't raise a finger help her, but by God they'll have a camera and film it all. It's a sad ending to a great experiment.

[jimb16]

Painter???? Get your first shots???? I had my second in the first week of March! How can you folks be that far behind everyone else? No wonder you have such a high rate of covid there!

[painter777]

IMO The Development and Production of the M1 Carbine would make a great History Channel Documentary
Would have to be better than what I seen a couple weeks ago about the History of Frozen Dinners and Breakfast Cereals in the US and the Tycoons behind them.

To Add to Dave HH's point,
I still think a in depth Development and Production of the Carbine would make a great Documentary. It's such a amazing achievement.... The Development, Organization, Gathering up so many Companies large and small, on and on.

I find it almost comical that today....... 'Everyone' will have at least one 100% Original as issued M1 Carbine. Read any Carbine forum you'll see. 25+ years ago when I got serious about these it was common to hear 99%+ of M1 Carbines had been thru some type of upgrade. I waited and watched for reports of the Midway carbines received by new owners. You couldn't refresh the screen fast enough to keep up with who was looking for what part(s) they needed to Correct it. Endless WTB, WTS WTT
You paid $$ for it, Pimp em out however you want em.

I've learned to limit myself to:
Having Extra NOS parts and maintenance parts stocked up.
Replace a bad part when needed.
Pull and replace a Fake part.
Keep the wood and metal oiled.
Keep plenty of Ammo on hand.
And enjoy shooting the ones I shoot.

The Past Forums, were a Free for all. Remember the direction the old Gun and Knife forum went? Many followed that fast skid in to the Sh!t pile.

My very first question on a Carbine Forum was:
'When they rebuilt a Carbine did the maker restamp the box with their initials in it?
I was F'ing reamed, Called a 'Humper'. I had read enough to know the Carbine had been upgraded. But the stock had no stamped Rebuild stamps on it.
This was back when I'd get help from the kids to work a computer and we still had dial up.
A Friendly messaged me after I passed some pictures to him. Yep I had a rebuilt Carbine, but it was in a I cut Hi-wood with one CC and 2 separate boxed IP stamps on either side of the CC. One of the IP stamps had the top of the letters toward the buttplate, the other IP box was oriented correctly.
Later that picture was shared with the Club. Never did share it on that Forum.

As far as lost members,
We've lost countless knowledgeable members over the years. David B among others is a great loss to us. I could name dozens whose input I miss.

FWIW

---------- Post added at 05:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:23 PM ----------

Painter???? Get your first shots???? I had my second in the first week of March! How can you folks be that far behind everyone else? No wonder you have such a high rate of covid there!

Older Topic Jim,

We got ours in April at our local Pharmacy, we were their 7th and 8th customers (Yea small town). College town near us, many headed to Spring breaks and many are Anti Vac.
Maybe 3 weeks ago I was able to go in to a local Tractor Supply and not need a mask! Felt like America again

[jimb16]

The only place they demand you wear a mask around here is the post office! Anywhere else its wear it if you want to, but we no longer require you to...

On the subject of really original carbines: That early 5 digit of mine is, I believe all original except for the correct wood that you supplied to me. While I have several that I believe to be all correct, I have my doubts that they are all original. I got the Inland from a WWII vet who said it was his issue rifle, and I believe him. Every part in it was very early Inland and I doubt he replaced anything, except the stock. At $750 when he could well have gotten over $1000 for it, I think he was passing it on to someone he believed would value it as much as he did and who would preserve it. Even though it had an M2 stock, I just couldn't leave it that way when all it needed was wood. And thanks to you, while it still isn't original, it is like it was built with the exception of the wood; correct, but not original. I suspect that is as original as any of them are today.

[Singer B]

The only place they demand you wear a mask around here is the post office! Anywhere else its wear it if you want to, but we no longer require you to...

On the subject of really original carbines: That early 5 digit of mine is, I believe all original except for the correct wood that you supplied to me. While I have several that I believe to be all correct, I have my doubts that they are all original. I got the Inland from a WWII vet who said it was his issue rifle, and I believe him. Every part in it was very early Inland and I doubt he replaced anything, except the stock. At $750 when he could well have gotten over $1000 for it, I think he was passing it on to someone he believed would value it as much as he did and who would preserve it. Even though it had an M2 stock, I just couldn't leave it that way when all it needed was wood. And thanks to you, while it still isn't original, it is like it was built with the exception of the wood; correct, but not original. I suspect that is as original as any of them are today.

"Correct, but not original..." I like it! That sounds about the most accurate and honest way to describe these rifles.

[AD-4NA]

I find this forum to still be excellent for M1 carbines, even with some missing talent. Some of the things you hear on some other forums that supposedly feature M1 carbines are laughable. I could certainly imagine how the endless requests for free appraisals on vaguely milsurp shaped objects and entry level questions and debates would get old to experts, no matter how generous.

That old soundbite about there never being any factory matching M1 carbines is still being passed around and making the rounds in places.


Seeing whats out there though does discourage me for my end goal though; having just one original unmolested carbine in addition to my shooters.

[DaveHH]

"Seeing whats out there though does discourage me for my end goal though; having just one original unmolested carbine in addition to my shooters.[/QUOTE]

A person might lower expectations and forget about type 1 barrel bands and flips and just go for mid to late '44 carbines, Winchester and Inlands. Apparently a lot of these went straight from factory to a rack somewhere. You want a carbine that some military dentist had issued to him that was shot once a year to qualify and spent the whole time in the arms room at some sleepy post. Eventually the M14/M16s arrived and the carbine went to a rack in Rock Island. The average collector will have a few of these pass through his hands and never give it another look because it will have a type two band and adjustable sights.