Just read the article 'Don"t Blame John Garand' in the latest GCA magazine.
I found it very interesting and I have a few observations of my own.
First, I don't blame John Garand. I praise him for designing a very well thought out magazine design. I prefer it to a detachable magazine.
His design provides one of the quickest reloads among the many military rifle designs.
Garand's clip is light, durable and extremely reusable. I have one clip I use for function testing that has been cycled many times with only finish wear.
I believe the Army made the right choice. They wanted magazine capacity to be no more that 10 rounds. A !0 round detachable magazine weighs a lot more than one 8 round clip.
Apparently, the military was not impressed with higher capacity magazines before full auto rifles were developed. There was a 25 round magazine conversion developed for the 03 Springfield. They made them for 98 Mausers too. They never became standard issue for all rifles. The SMLE was standard issue with a detachable 10 round box magazine and they could have easily increased its capacity. The Swiss decreased the magazine capacity of the later Schmidt Ruben designs from 12 to 6. If there was an advantage to increasing magazine capacity on the bolt actions, the military users didn't seem to notice it. The foreign contemporary semi autos of the Garand usually maxxed out magazine capacity at 10 rounds and reloaded from the top via stripper clips.
Magazine capacities of 10 rounds, with the capability of quick reloads with clips, was considered adequate for the rate of fire a semiautomatic rifle could produce. The 8 round M1 clip provided a very fast reload and the Army apparently did not think that 2 more rounds were necessary. They probably adopted the 8 round clip to avoid the thicker bottom profile in the magazine area that was a feature of the .276 Garand rifle.
Detachable box magazines containing 20 or more rounds were not necessary until the introduction of full automatic rifles and their much higher rate of fire and ammunition consumption.
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I recently got myself a Type 2 M1 Garand which I had the joys of taking out of the grease (can't wait to shoot it more once my range opens up again). I am shocked at just how ergonomic this rifle is. Safety is easy to engage and disengage. Sights are easy to use and effective. Loading is extremely fast with the 8rd clip, and if I practice a bit I am sure I could get very efficient with it. You can also keep a really low profile which is something that isn't as appreciated these days.
I would take the 8rd clip over a 10rd detachable magazine any day. No requirement to load magazines before hand, your ammo is issued on clips already. If you run out of clips your literally out of ammo so that isn't a issue. No damaged magazines to worry about. Just overall a fantastic design and until you start getting into the 20rd magazine range you really wouldn't see much of a rate of fire difference. It is also easier to produce all those clips than it is to make magazines. Plus if they were a 10rd magazine I guarantee you the military would have been insistent on stripper clip loading like just about every military at the same time period, which is slower than shoving a 8rd enbloc in.
No requirement to load magazines before hand, your ammo is issued on clips already. If you run out of clips your literally out of ammo so that isn't a issue.
Never thought of it that way. The loaded clip is like an old camera cartridge that contains 8 shots that aren't pictures.
It is also easier to produce all those clips than it is to make magazines. Plus if they were a 10rd magazine I guarantee you the military would have been insistent on stripper clip loading like just about every military at the same time period, which is slower than shoving a 8rd enbloc in.
You're right about that. The Army once considered doing that with the M14 prior to its adoption. They were thinking of issuing semi auto only M14's with fixed 10 round magazines loaded with stripper clips.
Many GIs said they valued the Ping! that alerted them to an empty rifle in a firefight.
I've read that in official troop surveys done by the Army. I believe the Army came to the same conclusion although I have not seen official documents stating so. I do believe that the Army could have muted the ping sound if they thought it was a problem by a change in clip metallurgy or through design changes.
Rock, What Bob is saying is the shooter can hear it and be alerted that his rifle is empty. He is not talking about the false story always told about G.I.'s tossing clips so the enemy would jump up and charge so they could shoot them. Rick B
Understood Rick. I was referring to the ping being a sort of an empty rifle alarm that aided the shooter. I believe the Army thought the same way too. There is probably a document confirming that somewhere in the National Archives awaiting discovery.
On YouTube there is a video of a veteran speaking about his time in battle. He was a truck driver that got cornered in a house and at the 12:20 mark, he starts to describe the M1 and the ping sound and how the enemy knew he was out of ammunition. I know it's not the norm situation, but this is an interesting story he tells to say the least. I wish I knew how to post links to this site but the video is titled "surrounded by the enemy"
"Surrounded by the enemy" Have a listen at about twelve minutes onward. Comes in about twelve minutes thirty...
You still can't hear that clang over gunfire though...
Thank you BAR, that's exactly the video I was referring to. Very interesting story nonetheless
---------- Post added at 03:52 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:49 PM ----------
I also thought it was interesting that he mentions that at the time, that they had heard rumors that that had worked. He called them tricks. I agree there's no way you could hear that in a huge gunfight, but I guess in certain situations you could
---------- Post added at 03:55 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:52 PM ----------
I always thought that the enblock clip / ping story was a post-war thing
magazine.
PM
Originally Posted by Eaglelord17
