+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 18

Thread: Receiver Scratch or Crack

Click here to increase the font size Click here to reduce the font size
  1. #1
    liljughead34
    Guest liljughead34's Avatar

    Receiver Scratch or Crack

    Hey Guys
    Do you think this mark on this M1icon Carbine is a scratch or crack? The seller says he inspected it after I pointed it out and said it was a scratch. What are your thoughts?

    Attachment 117843
    Information
    Warning: This is a relatively older thread
    This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

  2. # ADS
    Friends and Sponsors
    A Collector's View - The SMLE Short Magazine Lee Enfield 1903-1989. It is 300 8.5x11 inch pages with 1,000+ photo’s, most in color, and each book is serial-numbered.  Covering the SMLE from 1903 to the end of production in India in 1989 it looks at how each model differs and manufacturer differences from a collecting point of view along with the major accessories that could be attached to the rifle. For the record this is not a moneymaker, I hope just to break even, eventually, at $80/book plus shipping.  In the USA shipping is $5.00 for media mail.  I will accept PayPal, Zelle, MO and good old checks (and cash if you want to stop by for a tour!).  CLICK BANNER to send me a PM for International pricing and shipping. Manufacturer of various vintage rifle scopes for the 1903 such as our M73G4 (reproduction of the Weaver 330C) and Malcolm 8X Gen II (Unertl reproduction). Several of our scopes are used in the CMP Vintage Sniper competition on top of 1903 rifles. Brian Dick ... BDL Ltd. - Specializing in British and Commonwealth weapons Specializing in premium ammunition and reloading components. Your source for the finest in High Power Competition Gear. Here at T-bones Shipwrighting we specialise in vintage service rifle: re-barrelling, bedding, repairs, modifications and accurizing. We also provide importation services for firearms, parts and weapons, for both private or commercial businesses.
     

  3. #2
    Legacy Member Wthenley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2021
    Last On
    05-18-2022 @ 08:00 PM
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    39
    Real Name
    travis
    Local Date
    03-28-2024
    Local Time
    03:45 PM
    Hard to be sure from a photo. I would have to reason out that if a receiver had a "crack" that large it would be damaged elsewhere as well. I do not think a crack would happen in a straight line as that line appears to be showing. I would suspect it to be a mill mark or just a wear mark from the underside of the charging handle/op rod or bolt.

  4. Thank You to Wthenley For This Useful Post:


  5. Avoid Ads - Become a Contributing Member - Click HERE
  6. #3
    Advisory Panel
    painter777's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Last On
    @
    Location
    Central Michigan
    Posts
    5,312
    Local Date
    03-28-2024
    Local Time
    04:45 PM
    Fellow member tenOCee pointed out this area cracking on Commercial carbines.
    With that said, this is the thinnest area on a Receiver.
    Using advice given to him,

    Tip the receiver on it's left upper corner and poured some oil into the bottom of that slide cut overnight.
    See if the oil seeps thru the area your questioning.

    Here's a link to the posts by tenOCee and his pictures. Starts about 1/2 way down the page:
    Cracked Bolts, Slides and Receivers - The Carbine Collector's Club - Page 1

    Can you see any Damage near the Left locking lug the Bolt locks in to ?
    Look for any signs of the Receiver Bulging.
    If Cracked it could have been from a incident or just from metal fatigue.

    When I look at it magnified it appears cracked. But any Oil seepage from underneath to the top side would tell the tale.
    Charlie-Painter777

    A Country Has No Greater Responsibility Than To Care For Those Who Served...

  7. The Following 2 Members Say Thank You to painter777 For This Useful Post:


  8. #4
    Advisory Panel
    painter777's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Last On
    @
    Location
    Central Michigan
    Posts
    5,312
    Local Date
    03-28-2024
    Local Time
    04:45 PM
    I should add that Jim (BAR) had a early WRA he had to retire early because of metal fatigue splitting. And IIRC he had had no mishap that caused it.

    @liljughead, I forgot to Welcome you to Milsurps
    You'll find a Good bunch here.
    We consider no questions... Silly questions.
    Can you post a few pictures showing the Left locking shoulder inside the receiver and maybe one with the Bolt in it slid forward ?
    Charlie-Painter777

    A Country Has No Greater Responsibility Than To Care For Those Who Served...

  9. Thank You to painter777 For This Useful Post:


  10. #5
    Legacy Member MGMike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Last On
    03-05-2024 @ 06:06 PM
    Posts
    153
    Local Date
    03-28-2024
    Local Time
    03:45 PM
    If it's a crack, you'll see it also on the rear vertical surface of the receiver cut-out where the right-hand bolt lug locks into it (which is where the crack would have begun).

    If you're still in doubt, slosh some gasoline over the scratch/crack and watch it evaporate. If it's a crack, it will stay wet as the top surface dries and gasoline continues to seep out of the crack. If it's just a scratch, it will all dry about the same time.

    M

  11. The Following 2 Members Say Thank You to MGMike For This Useful Post:


  12. #6
    liljughead34
    Guest liljughead34's Avatar
    Thanks for the replies guys. This gun is for sale online so I don't have access to do the oil/ gas test. All I have to go off of is the pictures and his reply back to me that he took it apart and that it was a scratch and not a crack. From the picture I was leaning towards a scratch and from the pictures I've seen online of cracks on top of the rail are alot more obviously cracked. So I figured I'd see what some of you guys thought since I'm sure most of you have seen alot more carbines than I. I added another picture from his listing, doesn't really show much to help evaluate.


    Attachment 117847

  13. Thank You to liljughead34 For This Useful Post:


  14. #7
    Advisory Panel browningautorifle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Last On
    Today @ 01:16 PM
    Location
    Victoria BC
    Posts
    29,838
    Real Name
    Jim
    Local Date
    03-28-2024
    Local Time
    01:45 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by painter777 View Post
    I should add that Jim (BAR) had a early WRA he had to retire early because of metal fatigue splitting. And IIRC he had had no mishap that caused it.
    That was correct, just normal firing and then it stopped functioning. The crack was unmistakable. It was on the left side top edge lengthwise.
    Regards, Jim

  15. Thank You to browningautorifle For This Useful Post:


  16. #8
    Advisory Panel
    painter777's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Last On
    @
    Location
    Central Michigan
    Posts
    5,312
    Local Date
    03-28-2024
    Local Time
    04:45 PM
    Here is a picture shared by a member here of his later WRA with the inside Op Slide track groove on the Receiver cracked severely. He reported No Incident, it was just a Carbine he shot on a regular basis with Surplus Ammo from the CMPicon.
    https://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=73812



    Above this area where your arrows are pointing is thinner material.
    Your picture shows a Winchester Type I Receiver. Known to have cracking problems where the notch is cut away for the detachable spring tube housing's Tab. The completely cut thru hole for the Op slide Stop pin contributes to this being a weak area.
    This is part of the reason why these were phased out of production.

    Seller has it Titled: "WW2 M1icon Carbine Winchester-All Winchester Correct"
    This under his Inspection/ Return Policy:
    AS IS - No refund or exchange.
    Description reads: "Early Winchester M1 carbine".

    It's a early Winchester receiver with I believe the original barrel. The rest of the parts are from mid to later production WRA's, including the stock and hand guard. But IMO the Crossed Cannons and W.R.A. / G.H.D. Stamp is a reproduction, along with the "EW" Safety.

    Be careful on this one, the Close ups sure look like Cracking in the areas you placed your arrows on. I have 4 WRA Type I Carbines, the closest being 621 after this one.
    Winchester was known to have some pretty rough looking milling but again IMO that right receiver ledge has some major issues.

    You must have sensed it to have questioned it. Good Job on your part
    In the mean time there are a few really nice Winchesters in the mid 5 mil range currently being offered.

    This one is in my Watch Box. If any Feedback is left by a buyer I'll report back on it.

    Edit to Add: That Receiver is from early 43. Metal fatigue or some type of failure could be the cause.
    Last edited by painter777; 05-30-2021 at 12:51 AM. Reason: Edit To Add
    Charlie-Painter777

    A Country Has No Greater Responsibility Than To Care For Those Who Served...

  17. #9
    Contributing Member Flying10uk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Last On
    Yesterday @ 10:53 PM
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    5,075
    Local Date
    03-28-2024
    Local Time
    08:45 PM
    Unless it's been properly crack tested, in an approved manner, then personally I would assume that any mark seen like what is shown highlighted in post 1 is a crack.

    One of the problems with cracks in metal is that they tend to travel, i.e. get bigger.

  18. Thank You to Flying10uk For This Useful Post:


  19. #10
    Legacy Member floydthecat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Last On
    02-25-2024 @ 07:10 AM
    Location
    Southeastern US
    Posts
    163
    Local Date
    03-28-2024
    Local Time
    02:45 PM
    We know that receivers are very hard. Might be a scratch, but hard to imagine what caused it. It runs across the grain of the tool marks and appears to be a single pass from something, if it is a scratch.

    Might be a tool-mark, but without being able to hands-on evaluate it, right-to-return might be the only way I would consider it.

  20. Thank You to floydthecat For This Useful Post:


+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 7
    Last Post: 03-14-2016, 04:01 PM
  2. Contest to rename the idiot scratch
    By DaveN in forum 1911/1911A1 Service Pistol
    Replies: 30
    Last Post: 01-27-2015, 09:38 PM
  3. Idiot Scratch.
    By DaveN in forum 1911/1911A1 Service Pistol
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 05-11-2012, 12:38 AM
  4. Remington P 14 Enfield crack receiver
    By carl1114 in forum Pattern 1913/1914 and M1917 Rifles
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 12-02-2011, 10:21 AM
  5. Crack in Winchester Receiver
    By MountainScout in forum M1/M2 Carbine
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 03-09-2011, 09:17 AM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Raven Rocks