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  1. #11
    Legacy Member Wineman's Avatar
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    That water quench will add 5+ BHN. If you need more speed then the water quench is the way to go but at 1,500 fps you don't need it. I would just let them cool on an old towel. Age for a couple of weeks and shoot some. Liquid Alox diluted 50/50 with mineral spirits (I use about a teaspoon for 100 bullets warmed with a hair dryer). Two coats should be enough. I would melt the WW's separately, flux a couple of times and skim any non metallic crud off the top. If it looks like a metal scum, stir it back in and add more flux (wax, sap, sawdust etc.). When "clean" pour into moulds. I have a cast iron muffin maker from a garage sale. Makes 2# ingots. These I use in my electric pot. Your mileage may vary. If a wheel weight does not melt, it is probably Zinc. Skim it out and toss it!

    Dave

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    A Collector's View - The SMLE Short Magazine Lee Enfield 1903-1989. It is 300 8.5x11 inch pages with 1,000+ photo’s, most in color, and each book is serial-numbered.  Covering the SMLE from 1903 to the end of production in India in 1989 it looks at how each model differs and manufacturer differences from a collecting point of view along with the major accessories that could be attached to the rifle. For the record this is not a moneymaker, I hope just to break even, eventually, at $80/book plus shipping.  In the USA shipping is $5.00 for media mail.  I will accept PayPal, Zelle, MO and good old checks (and cash if you want to stop by for a tour!).  CLICK BANNER to send me a PM for International pricing and shipping. Manufacturer of various vintage rifle scopes for the 1903 such as our M73G4 (reproduction of the Weaver 330C) and Malcolm 8X Gen II (Unertl reproduction). Several of our scopes are used in the CMP Vintage Sniper competition on top of 1903 rifles. Brian Dick ... BDL Ltd. - Specializing in British and Commonwealth weapons Specializing in premium ammunition and reloading components. Your source for the finest in High Power Competition Gear. Here at T-bones Shipwrighting we specialise in vintage service rifle: re-barrelling, bedding, repairs, modifications and accurizing. We also provide importation services for firearms, parts and weapons, for both private or commercial businesses.
     

  4. #12
    Legacy Member Jonzie's Avatar
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    I have all the WW Lead in 1 pound Ingots I used flux as I melted them down. I have some Javelina 50/50 Alox and Beeswax and some Lube a friend gave me its labeled
    TAC # 1 - High Performance ( Low smoke formula/high demand ) looks like will need the heater used on it. Will these work Ok.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wineman View Post
    That water quench will add 5+ BHN. If you need more speed then the water quench is the way to go but at 1,500 fps you don't need it
    Thats good to know Thanks Dave

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  7. #13
    Legacy Member Wineman's Avatar
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    Sounds like you have all the right stuff. Check this site out:

    http://www.lasc.us/CastBulletNotes.htm

    Dave

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  9. #14
    Legacy Member Jonzie's Avatar
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    Thanks for the info. Dave I appreciate you help.

  10. #15
    Legacy Member Rick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonzie View Post
    With the prices of powder and availability I have been thinking about casting some of my
    own rifle bullets and using some of the Red Dot that I have plenty of.
    I want to try the Lee C-309-150-F and C-309-170 molds, in Lymans Casting Manual
    The Red Dot (and Ed Harris's previous "the load" that used 2400 instead) loads mentioned have a pretty good probability of being a powder/charge combination that will deliver within your rifle's grouping capability with cast bullets. And Lee is a pretty inexpensive first foray into moulds. Ed Harris over on the CBA forum uses one of Lee's designs for one of his target cast bullet loads in his No. 4 Mk1.

    Some other considerations to consider and act on (or not) as you prefer:

    One of the biggest factors in what you get for grouping ability out of your rifle, particularly milsurps, is how well your loaded cast bullet (regardless of manufacturer) fits in the ball seat/lead. A bullet that somewhat replicates a bullet laying in the bottom of that area when chambered rather than a near contact fit leaves a lot to go wrong before the bullet ever gets into the rifling. Slugging the ball seat/lead, getting the dimensions, and then adjusting things so your cast bullets of choice are a close fit does a lot to enhance the possibility of success. You only have to figure it out once, and then just replicate that afterwards, just like figuring out the right powder and weight combination for a load.

    In my opinion, time spent getting precise measurements for your ball seat/lead and then making adjustments so that your seated cast bullets closely match that is time that will probably pay dividends.

    Particularly where milsurps like Lee-Enfields are concerned.

    Equally particularly, any rifle with a well worn or mediocre barrel: unlike over the counter jacketed bullets, cast bullets can be at sizes that specifically match your chamber and barrel. I have an 1895 Winchester that does indeed have a chamber in 30 U.S. - but the barrel has bore and groove measurements that make you think somebody back when it was manufactured took a barrel intended for a rifle to be made in .303 Britishicon and chambered it for a rifle intended to be 30 U.S. by mistake. Barrel is still bright well over a century after my grandfather bought it - but once I slugged it I knew why my grandfather said it never was very accurate with any ammunition he put through it. Barn door grouping ability with any jacketed bullet I tried - 2 MOA with the Lyman aperture with properly sized cast bullets.

    Second, there's a reason that baking on powder coating has resulted in an increasing number of cast bullet shooters going to powder coating versus conventional lubes. I am not sure I will ever conventionally lube cast bullets again, except for perhaps my Hawken muzzleloader - I simply haven't tried it for that yet. But Lee Enfields and Webley revolvers - all are powder coated now, despite one being COWW and the other pretty much pure lead. One advantage is that looking for the right hardness window is less critical. Not irrelevant, but a much larger range of BHN values that work.

    Finally, unless the value Lee moulds give you everything you hope for, investing in a custom mould with dimensions cut to specifically match the dimensions of your ball seat/leade is often money well spent. Accurate Moulds is my go-to for services like that, but other mould makers will do the same. Accurate guarantees tolerances of +/- .001" on the dimensions you specify your bullet drop at with your alloy of choice. So far, my accurate moulds drop bullets that are closer to being +/- .0005". That difference can be just as likely due to slight temperature differences (although I use a PID to control alloy temperature at the bottom pour spout), or just one batch of COWW alloy versus another.

    And if you decide you hate your Accurate mold and want to sell it, you will find them easy to sell and at a pretty good price. Ditto the other custom mould makers.

    Bullet Design Catalog | Accurate Molds

    You pick the bullet design and weight that you think meets your needs, and the mould maker alters the dimensions you wish changed to your specifications, to drop bullets from the alloy of your specification at the size you specified. The moulds Accurate have cut for me have dropped right to the thou with COWW, exactly matching the specifications of my order. You can even order two (or three) different mould designs in the same set of mould blocks, allowing you to try two or more different designs (or mould dimensions) in the same set of mould blocks for only slightly more than a single design. Tremendous number of options available.






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  12. #16
    Legacy Member Jonzie's Avatar
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    Rick thank you for the helpful info. sounds like I have some studying to do I just received a book from Cast Bullet Association Its Cast bullets for beginners and experts 3rd edition vol. 1 & 2 .
    Its a good time for me to read since the summer heat is here . Thanks again for the help its appreciated

    Richard

  13. #17
    Legacy Member Rick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonzie View Post
    Rick thank you for the helpful info. sounds like I have some studying to do I just received a book from Cast Bullet Association Its Cast bullets for beginners and experts 3rd edition vol. 1 & 2 .
    It sounds like Joe Brennan is still around and still hard at work; he must be at least 80 years old now, going on memory. My copy is an original edition, one volume circa 2003, from when Joe first got the idea to compile reference articles on subjects, harass SMEs on various areas to write an article, etc. That was LONG before powder coating ever arrived on the scene; back then I was doing some of the supposedly cutting edge stuff back then, coating my bullets with a moly solution intended for use in corrosive environments in pulp mills. At the time I thought it was really making an improvement; knowing what I know now, I think it was other changes I made in the casting/sizing process that delivered the goods, not the moly product.

    I haven't kept membership/competed in the Cast Bullet Association for years now, so I'm really out of touch with what's in the current version of that book. I am also a lazy caster, not an enthusiast or experimenter. Once I figured out what produced great results, I dialed in the cast bullets that produced the results I wanted and went back to why I cast bullets in the first place: shooting.

    So it might be worth it for me to buy a current edition... will have to think about that. Lots of things have changed in the almost twenty years since that first edition.

    Lyman's cast bullet manual is kind of useful background info, although I think some of it is a bit dated. I don't know about the most recent edition; I don't have it. You can find the 3d Edition (I think) online for free download and reading; I think that's circa 1980 or something like that.

    I also really liked RCBS's first (and only) cast bullet manual. If you see that one, it's worth grabbing for your library. Pity RCBS hadn't kept up with that - they still make lots of nice cast bullet designs that should have a manual to supply data for them. Not a design for the .303s, however.

    The various cast bullet forums are good places to hang out and browse through the stickies in the forums; lots of background info to be picked up there as guys sort out issues with a cast bullet load they're trying to develop. Helps a lot when you get around to starting on your project. And of course, if you have a question or problem, people will pile in (and on) trying to help you.

    I'll finish by saying that if any one thing is the key, it would be producing a cast bullet that fits as best possible in the ball seat/leade when your loaded rounds are chambered. The things that result in a cast bullet grouping poorly, leading the bore, etc have all pretty much happened long before the bullet is fully in and obdurating the bore.

    Keep us up to date; will be interesting following your progress.

  14. #18
    Legacy Member Jonzie's Avatar
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    I originally was going with a cast bullet that I can use to shoot at the local range . I most often shoot offhand at 200 yards however I do have plenty of paper targets I can make use of .
    It will be a learning experience for me for sure. The more I read the more I see how much I don't know. Thank you for sharing your knowledge
    Richard

  15. #19
    Legacy Member Rick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonzie View Post
    I originally was going with a cast bullet that I can use to shoot at the local range . I most often shoot offhand at 200 yards however I do have plenty of paper targets I can make use of.
    I generally shoot standing, kneeling, sitting, prone at 100 yards using various reduced targets. Best bang for my buck and time at the range, and with a good cast load, you can get that. Why shoot spendy Hornady/Sierra 174 gr. match bullets through paper at that distance, instead of reserving those loads for when you decide to give it a go out at 300, 400, etc and see how you deal with wind and mirage and so on?

    To give you an idea of what the best and most experienced are getting in military BENCHREST, the guys at the top in the national championships last year were getting 5"+ groups at 200 yards.

    That's the guys at the top. At 100 yards, it was 2"+ for those at the very top. To the best of my knowledge, the ones getting anywhere near the top were shooting 1903s, not a single Lee-Enfield in there. I would not be surprised to learn that a lot of those 1903s had a history of involvement in NRA over the course shooting with jacketed ammunition, at ranges well beyond 200 yards. If Lee Enfields could compete with those 1903s, those guys winning the matches would find themselves a high quality Lee Enfield. The Swissicon K31s seem to be the only ones giving the 1903s competition in milsurp cast bullet benchrest.

    The point of all that is, there's the benchmark for the best available grouping ability from a milsurp with cast loads, as cast, loaded, and fired by the most accomplished shooters in the game. The likelihood that you (or I) are going to cast and assemble cast bullet loads that get anywhere near that 5" grouping at 200 yards is pretty small. Ditto for getting those 2" groups at 100 yards.

    With that in mind, unless you decide to dive all in and go down the cast bullet competitive shooting rabbit hole, you have to decide what you consider to be a grouping that you're happy with shooting using your own cast bullets. And figure that into your preferred activity of shooting offhand - not from a bench.

    Think of it as realistic expectations. It's easy to start thinking you must be doing something wrong when you can't get close to the results the best in the game get.

    It will be a learning experience for me for sure. The more I read the more I see how much I don't know. Thank you for sharing your knowledge
    Richard
    Proper resizing techniques also helps when you get into the cast bullet game. If your ball seat/leade cast tells you your bullet shank should be .316", trying to cram it into a neck sized for .311" jacketed bullets is not going to help you get the best of results.

    There's assorted ways to deal with that. Using a Lee neck sizing collet die, and replacing the original mandrel with one that gives you the desired resized neck for a cast bullet at the same time is the easiest and best for maximum case life at the same time. Alternately, you can use the factory mandrel in the crimp die and then use NOE's very nice and very inexpensive neck expander plugs to then open up the neck to your desired size. I.e. a .315" or .314" for your cast bullet with .316" shank.

    Anyways, keep us up to date as you progress. I was lucky, I had Ken Mollohan volunteer himself to help me out when I started into the cast bullet game. Molly probably forgot more about cast bullets than the vast majority of cast bullet users learn in their entire lives. Losing him a few years ago was a great loss both as an encyclopedia of knowledge and as a fine man and good friend.

    And hang out over in the cast bullet forums. Even just random reading of the threads that catch your attention can help flatten out the learning curve when you're starting out.

  16. #20
    Legacy Member Jonzie's Avatar
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    I am going to start with seeing how I do with shooting at a gong the range has set up at 200 yards and 100 yards.
    I have a pretty good time with the loads I use with the jacketed bullets. If I can get the same results with cast bullets
    it will be a good start and who knows from there where I end up. I will check out the forums you mentioned if there like this forum
    I have plenty of opportunity available of learning what I can use. Thank you Rick
    Richard

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