Is this a real sniper?

[superbee]

Thinking of bidding.Real or fake?

https://www.rockislandauction.com/de...le-with-letter

Information

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[Scout Sniper]

Very nice rifle, looks good with the correct mount and scope as it should.

Having the cover letter from Ian Skennerton is a nice reassurance and should give great confidence in it's authenticity.

[Lee Enfield]

Very nice rifle, looks good with the correct mount and scope as it should.

Having the cover letter from Ian Skennerton is a nice reassurance and should give great confidence in it's authenticity.

I would take RogerP's reassurance over Skennerton's in this case.

[Ovidio]

Looks great.
Good luck!

[Roy W]

On the basis that it is stated all WW1 sniper rifles were taken back to arsenal and stripped, how on earth is it possible to confirm a genuine example?

Just asking as very interested in the answer.

[Roger Payne]

I got to take a quick look at the pictures very late last night. I could only see a couple of photo's - of the complete rifle viewed from either side - which is not ideal. Mind you I'm pretty bad with IT so there may have been more images that I missed. But based on what I saw:

The rifle is of the correct 'era' & from an appropriate manufacturer. The scope is a genuine item, & I think the base probably is too, although more views would have been nice. There are two minor variations of the mount base, this one having the radiused front lower end as well as the radiused lower back end. In addition this type bears the larger thumb catch - so that all checks out. If anyone is interested I have shown photo's of both variants in that little article that's on this site somewhere.

Within the limitations of the views available I would not dispute what Ian has said about the rifle itself. It quite likely is genuine.

However, I have issues with the scope rings. They may well be correct but we don't get to see them very well in order to decide. The scope is genuine. But, if you look at the view of the rifle from the RHS (bolt handle side) there appears to me, though it could be an effect of the light/shadow or whatever, variations in the surface appearance of the scope tube, as one often sees when as scope has had more than one set of rings on it during its lifetime. Further, & in the same view, if you look at the soldered edges where the rings are attached to the scope, the solder looks rather new & shiny. This would indicate either a relatively recent job, or that the original solder has been got at for some reason. Undisturbed century old soft solder takes on a slatey colour due to surface oxidation. Note also, that the black paint on the scope ocular housing is in pretty good condition except for that part of the housing that is threaded onto the scope tube proper, & this looks to have had the paint removed (odd that the paint is excellent elsewhere but totally missing here where it butts up to the rings).

So, from the very limited views we have, I cannot say with certainty, but I suspect that the rifle may well be right as Ian suggests. The scope & rings may well be right, but may have been re-fitted together somewhat after the Great War (or at least tickled recently). Even if that is the case, on an otherwise correct rifle I would not regard it as an 'end of the world' issue.......just something to be aware of when deciding how much to bid.

And if there are more photo's that my technological limitations caused me to miss, then please someone give me a prod with a stick & I'll have another look.

[Roger Payne]

Roy, I've always taken it that those very few rifles that for whatever reason did not get sent back to the UK to be stripped for usable spares at Weedon now form the sole reservoir of original rifles. My original PPCo rifle was one of a batch of several thousand SMLE's that had been stored in a warehouse in Egypt for decades, until Ryton Arms bought 1200 of them in the early 1990's. Out of that 1200 there were two rifles that still bore bases (scopes long gone, of course). One of them was a BSA rifle & it was bought by Tony Hallam for his son Robert's collection (the Charnwood collection that was auctioned at Bonhams in 1998). Paul Varley, the then manager of Ryton, kept the slightly better of the two for himself (an EFD 1916). In about 1996 I managed to do a deal with him as he needed a couple of No32 scopes really badly - so we did a swap. Both of us were happy, & I still have the rifle.

In practice we are often assisted in distinguishing the right from the wrong, simply because most of the fakers are so bad at it............their desires outweigh their abilities, at least in most cases. Long may it stay that way!

[Roy W]

Roy, I've always taken it that those very few rifles that for whatever reason did not get sent back to the UK to be stripped for usable spares at Weedon now form the sole reservoir of original rifles. My original PPCo rifle was one of a batch of several thousand SMLE's that had been stored in a warehouse in Egypt for decades, until Ryton Arms bought 1200 of them in the early 1990's. Out of that 1200 there were two rifles that still bore bases (scopes long gone, of course). One of them was a BSA rifle & it was bought by Tony Hallam for his son Robert's collection (the Charnwood collection that was auctioned at Bonhams in 1998). Paul Varley, the then manager of Ryton, kept the slightly better of the two for himself (an EFD 1916). In about 1996 I managed to do a deal with him as he needed a couple of No32 scopes really badly - so we did a swap. Both of us were happy, & I still have the rifle.

In practice we are often assisted in distinguishing the right from the wrong, simply because most of the fakers are so bad at it............their desires outweigh their abilities, at least in most cases. Long may it stay that way!

Thanks for the explanation Roger, that would make sense.

Must be the rarest of the rare.

Roy

[Surpmil]

A couple of detail shots.

Original parts, or mostly original parts re-assembled IMO, as you say Roger.

I have only owned one original PPCo. base, but it did not have that rather thin sort of browning, but a proper rust blue, nearly identical to that typical on the rifles themselves. Such a browning, were it original, would show wear in the all the typical places...

The scope has been reblued judging by the extensive rust pitting on the tube, which has not affected the bluing as it would were that original. Not to mention the unknown ring marks you point out!

Were the bases numbered to the rifles Roger? That doesn't ring a bill with me.

As you say, the black enamel entirely removed from the threaded collar of the ocular assembly is not likely to have happened with the scope fitted to the rings, and has clearly been at least polished quite recently from the colour of the brass.

The wear on the brass parts of the scope does not correspond to the lack of wear on the rings or the scope tube.

[Roger Payne]

The appearance of the bases varies quite considerably. I've probably only ever seen about 12 to 15 myself, the majority now dismounted from their rifles, although a few still in situ as well, over the years. Some have shown clear evidence of blue & others could quite possibly not have been at all, just having light surface patination. I've also noticed that, from this admittedly small sample size, original bases sometimes bear their rifle's serial, & sometimes not. I don't know but have mused that perhaps the bases without a rifle number may have been unissued........or at least may not have been fitted to rifles straight away, but rather went at first into store, but that's only a suggestion & could well be wrong.

You've put it better than I, but I think we share the same concerns about the scope & rings.