N° 8 Mk I trainer fitted with an A. J. Parker 8/53 sight attachment

[Strangely Brown]

Back in 1981 when, as a cadet, I shot a No.8 in the Country Life competition there were two distinct classes. Class A Cup was for No.8 rifles fitted with Match sights. We used the PH 5D with aperture/globe foresights. 93 units entered this class. Class B Cup was for the as issued rear sights with blade foresights - 60 units entered this class.

Thanks for the correction Nigel; the only match I recall was Sussex ACF in the early 1960's shot against a private school.
The concept of competitive shooting was something we rarely did!

[30Three]

Didier, to shoot the Service Rifle Trainer class here in France; you will need the standard rear sight.
But rest assured that it' a competitive rifle in it's class; the only slight downside compared to the MAS45 is that it's a single shot.
The magazine feed of the MAS is an advantage when shooting in the standing position.

[Patrick Chadwick]

But rest assured that it' a competitive rifle in it's class;

A few years ago I took part in a BDMP competition for scoped .22s. A BR50 competition. Who would use a military trainer for that?
The No. 8 came 6th in a field of 38, with 245/250, beating about 100k-worth of luxury goods.

No it's not just competitive. It's the best .22 trainer there ever was.

Just my humble opinion, of course!

Patrick

[Didier]

Didier, to shoot the Service Rifle Trainer class here in France; you will need the standard rear sight.
But rest assured that it' a competitive rifle in it's class; the only slight downside compared to the MAS45 is that it's a single shot.
The magazine feed of the MAS is an advantage when shooting in the standing position.

I am well aware of that, but it is not my intention to take part in competitions for the time being - I am more of a leisure shooter, actually.
My other trainers do include a MAS 45, though.

[Didier]

A few years ago I took part in a BDMP competition for scoped .22s. A BR50 competition. Who would use a military trainer for that?
The No. 8 came 6th in a field of 38, with 245/250, beating about 100k-worth of luxury goods.

No it's not just competitive. It's the best .22 trainer there ever was.

Just my humble opinion, of course!

Patrick

Well, Patrick, this No. 8 rifle clearly outshoots my MAS 45 - I have had a go at it at the range a few days back and I must say I was particularly pleased with its accuracy and how comfortable it felt against my shoulder. The AJP sight did a very good job and, all things considered, I do not see the point of spending big money on a state-of-the-art PH peep sight.

[Didier]

I have some additional questions about the serial number ranges of Fazakerley-made No. 8 rifles - I have done some research on the Internet and have come to the conclusion that the serial number of my rifle does not fall readily within the usual serial number range of these trainers/target rifles.

The serial numbers I was able to record so far:

F49 – A10403
F50 – A11001
F50 – A17160 (ejector screw hole present)
F50 – A2243 - a change in the numbering of these rifles seems to have occurred some time during the year 1950.
F50 – A4412
Fxx – A5679
F51 – A5685 (FTR Enfield 1966)
Fxx - A5938 (FTR Enfield 1966)
F50 – A63xx
F51 – A7106
F51 – A8192
F51 – A11490
F51 – A12499
F51 – A12663
F51 – A13288
F51 – A14255
F51 – A14360 (FTR Enfield 1970)
F51 – A14924
F51 – A16559
F52 – A18954

Mine is serial # 5685 and was made in 1951. My question is the following one: is there any remote possibility that 1966 FTR'd rifles were renumbered at Enfield?



Apparently, the serial number had been electropencilled on the receiver wall before it was engraved :



Another such instance of a 1966 FTR'd No. 8 rifle:



A couple of 1970 Enfield FTR'd No. 8 rifles:


(imported by Frankonia Waffen Würzburg)

[Mk VII]

The body will always retain its number, unless it's been obliterated and its not possible to recover it. There is no reason to do otherwise.

[Alan de Enfield]

The body will always retain its number, unless it's been obliterated and its not possible to recover it. There is no reason to do otherwise.

Fazakerley markings were always extremely poorly executed and could often not be read, and were regularly renumbered. Peter Laidler wrote about the ID problems as an adendum to a long article on the 1950's Fazakerley FTR programme :

Extract :


As for the markings, well, as I have said before, the shallow, almost invisible pantograph scratch markings caused all sorts of headaches for Armourers and thousands of these almost invisible Fazakerley re-numbered rifles were later re-numbered with the 'lost' number format of SA60 A1234 and so on. One seen only last week reads SA63-A2253 indicating Small Arms, 1963 with the sequential number A-2253 while underneath a number that reads something like 53P xxxxx follows!"

[Didier]

Fazakerley markings were always extremely poorly executed and could often not be read, and were regularly renumbered. Peter Laidler wrote about the ID problems as an adendum to a long article on the 1950's Fazakerley FTR programme :

Extract :


As for the markings, well, as I have said before, the shallow, almost invisible pantograph scratch markings caused all sorts of headaches for Armourers and thousands of these almost invisible Fazakerley re-numbered rifles were later re-numbered with the 'lost' number format of SA60 A1234 and so on. One seen only last week reads SA63-A2253 indicating Small Arms, 1963 with the sequential number A-2253 while underneath a number that reads something like 53P xxxxx follows!"

That is very interesting indeed. I cannot tell for sure whether mine has been renumbered but I was surprised to see that the other such instance of a 1966 Enfield FTR'd No. 8 rifle I could find was roughly in the same range as mine as far as its serial number was concerned. I would have to find other examples of rifles from that same batch to get some conclusive evidence of renumbering, though.

[Didier]

Another rifle from the 1970 Enfield FTR, serial # A14412 and dated 1950 (Fazakerley), barely 52 numbers away from another 1970 FTR'd No. 8, illustrated above (serial # A14360) - a mere coincidence?...