New member with a question - Lee Speed Carbine: Jameson Raid and other questions

[Wallace66]

Acquired a Number 3 trade pattern BSA Lee Speed carbine earlier in the year and trying to piece together the story.

Appears to have been in both Boer and Commonwealth forces (Doyle Scouts) hands, refer to attached photos. There is a slim probability it may have been one of the captured carbines of the Jameson Raid? Serial number 1304.

Have been down the google rabbit hole of investigation regarding the markings on the carbine, with success, but one exception.

The last marking has everyone stumped, the V in the circle on the right hand of breech.

Could this be a mark for Vickers Steel?

Anyone'sAttachment 120996Attachment 120997Attachment 120998Attachment 120999Attachment 121000Attachment 121001Attachment 121002 opinion and any assistance will be greatly appreciated.

Information

Warning: This is a relatively older thread This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

[Daan Kemp]

The butt carvings look like multiple owners. At least three different ones.

[superbee]

Super rifle!
I have been collecting lee speeds for a few years now and would love to find a carved one.

Thanks for posting.

[browningautorifle]

Glad someone didn't toss that buttstock along the way. Neat little carbine.

[Wallace66]

Thanks for the comments, if any of you know the answer to the "V" circle proof mark on the left side it would be appreciated.
Additionally, if anyone knows anything about J Kelly, Trooper 2029 0f the Doyle Scouts, 2nd Boer war, it will be of enormous assistance.

[Wallace66]

Apologies if this is the wrong forum.

Acquired a Number 3 trade pattern BSA Lee Speed carbine earlier in the year and trying to piece together the story.

Appears to have been in both Boer and Commonwealth forces (Doyle Scouts) hands, refer to attached photos. There is a slim probability it may have been one of the captured carbines from the Jameson Raid? Serial number 1304.

Have been down the google rabbit hole of investigation regarding the markings on the carbine, with success, but one exception.

The last marking has everyone stumped, the V in the circle on the right hand of breech.

Could this be a mark for Vickers Steel?

[Jc5]

Wow--great rifle!

Well, obviously a Boer War veteran, but doubtful that it's a Jameson Raid rifle. First, the BSA records indicate that they sold Lee-Speed sporting rifles and military configuraton Lee-Metfords to the British So. Africa Company prior to the raid, but no evidence of trade pattern carbines in this order. Anything is possible in the world of Lee-Enfields, of course, but unlikely. But the more compelling evidence is that this rifle is marked BSA Co. on the wrist, and at the time of the raid, the company was known as BSA&M, and the rife would have been so stamped. Much more likely that this carbine was privately purchased (by someone on either side) on the eve of the Boer War, and it could have changed owners along the way. I am also curious to learn more about "J Kelly, Trooper 2029 0f the Doyle Scouts." The number on the buttstock clearly indicates service life (as if the carving were not sufficient evidence). Private purchases were not necessarily to an individual---could have been to equip a unit.

FWIW, I have collected info on other Lee-Speeds with 13xx serial numbers and they are all trade pattern carbines too. Now the encircled V mark is not a proof mark (the Proof House didn't use such a mark). I wish I knew exactly what it meant, but I have been researching it for some years without success. Each time I think I have it figured out, I'll discover some new rifle specimen that sinks the hypothesis, and it's back to the drawing board. I think--for now--it's best to concur with Ian that it is a private BSA viewer's mark. But there is still a mystery to solve, because not every BSA barrel has it. [For everyone asking why the Lee-Speed book is so much delayed, it's because I'm trying to crack this puzzle! ] By any chance is there an encircled E mark on the other side of the barrel? Could you post a pic of that side?

Four more questions: 1) Is there a number or letter on the top-rear flat part of the action (where the bolt slides in)? You just need to raise the bolt handle and look beneath.
2) Have you removed the fore-end? If so, I'd like to know if there are any numbers beneath the wood, where the barrel meets the action.
3) Is the bolt matching? If not, what is the number on the bolt handle?
4) What is the barrel length, and what is the overall length? Let's make certain it is actually a trade pattern carbine.

[Strangely Brown]

The last marking has everyone stumped, the V in the circle on the right hand of breech.

Could this be a mark for Vickers Steel?

I'm inclined to think it's a W for a cord worn barrel.

Anybody?

[Alan de Enfield]

I'm inclined to think it's a W for a cord worn barrel.

Anybody?

It doesn't look like a W to me - I'd say definitely a V.

[RobD]

Ron Bester in his definitive book, "Small Arms of the Anglo-Boer War", writes, among other things, that the arms used by Jameson and his group were most probably BSA&M sporting Lee Metfords with flat-top ribs in the 7100 serial number range.