ShtLE No1 Mk111* Sniper - property of Lt N.W. Methven, M.C, OC Bailey's Sharpshooters

[desperatedan]

Coming up for sale in the UK next month is an SMLE sniper and accessories with an interesting provenance so hope the mods don't mind me posting here rather than in the "Commercial auction gossip" section.

A couple of questions:

1) The rifle has a cut-down fore-end much like a "sporter" which is assumed to be as originally modified by it's primary user. Can anyone shed any light on how that might have affected (or not) the performance of the rifle?

2) The front scope mount is described as "loose" but could it be that the scope locking lever on that type of mount has some play or 'rattle" when the scope isn't mounted?

p.s. it's way beyond my budget so no ulterior motive to my queries!


From the auctioneers catalogue listing:

AN EXCEPTIONALLY RARE .303 BOLT-ACTION SNIPER-RIFLE, MODEL 'BAILEY'S SHARPSHOOTERS No1MKIII*', serial no. 6140, WITH ACCESSORIES, the rifle dated for 1916, with 25 1/2in. exposed barrel, the fore-stock deliberately cut back to 'sporter' style favoured by the unit 'Bailey's South African Sharpshooters' in 1917, the fore-sight unprotected, the elevating rear-sight retained, the top of barrel near breech fitted with a telescopic sight mount (currently loose), the top-wood adapted for same, open receiver with side claw mount, no magazine cut-off or long range volley sight, oval cocking piece, side safe, walnut butt-stock, the left side of butt carved with a circular panel containing ts 'B.S.A.S' around a depiction of a springbok's head, ten-round detachable magazine and fitted with a canvas webbing sling, together with its original Aldis Bros, London telescopic sight no. 68774, also dated 1916 and marked with a matching number to rifle, the mounts applied and signed 'J. PURDEY & SONS', complete with its leather carry case and shoulder strap, the instructions for use within the lid of the case, also an issue trench periscope by R & J Beck Ltd., also dated 1916 in its leather case and a 'TEL SIG (MKIV) G.G. four-draw telescope with additional high magnification eyepiece signed Negretti & Zambra, London. and complete with its folding wooden lightweight tripod; all part of the original equipment schedule

Provenance: This rare rifle was the property of Lt N.W. Methven, M.C., one of the serving 24 members of Abe Bailey's South African Sharpshooters unit and one of only six members who survived the war. After the conflict, Methven refused to return the rifle to the Union Defence Force, stating that as Bailey had personally bought and paid for the rifles, it was never the U.D.F's in the first place! It was the only rifle used by Methven during the war and he insisted on having the barrel replaced every 500 rounds; this work was apparently carried out four times.
By all account, Methven amassed a large collection of souvenirs from this and other previous wars, most of which he stated came from 'people who didn't need them anymore'. When he sadly passed, it was left to his nephew to dispose of his collection, including this rifle. It was purchased by a neighbour and came by descent to the current vendor. It is possibly now the only known surviving genuine rifle from Bailey's Sharpshooters.

This rifle and the history of Sir Abe's Sharpshooters is dealt with at length in a new book recently released by William Endley entitled 'South Africa At War - The Union Defence Force in World War 1'

One of the auction pictures is below (credit Holts). Other pictures are on the auction listing here : HOLTS Auctioneers

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Information

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[superbee]

Interesting rifle! Thanks for sharing info.

[Roger Payne]

It states in the description that the rifle was rebarrelled several times during the Great War at Methven's request, however, the barrel currently on it is a BSA commercial tube & bears a previous rifle serial number that has been obliterated. It's only my suspicion, but I would not be surprised if the purchasor from the Methven family had it rebarrelled post war with the barrel it now bears, & that at the most recent rebarrelling the front mount base was not properly re-soldered into place. SA forummers will no doubt know much better than I, but I gather a lot of commercial BSA SMLE barrels ended up in the RSA.

The facing flush of the screws locating the rear base is also not typical in my limited experience, as all of the indisputably genuine PPCo & Aldis bearing rifles I have seen have had mount bases held on by cheese headed screws with the tops slightly domed (outwardly similar to 4T front pad screw heads). However, how many of us have seen a lot of original WW1 SMLE snipers?? It could be a variant in the fitting of the screws or it could be that the base was refitted a long time ago (admiited, the rear base clearly hasn't been off in a donkey's age).

The cutting back of the front wood was quite common in both British & Dominion use & there are period photo's extant which show this.

All in all though, it seems to be a genuine example with impeccable provenance.............& will doubtless fetch far more than I can afford to pay for it!

[RobD]

I expect Terry Willson will be along any minute, his Dad was a South African sniper on the Western Front during the Great War.

[Roger Payne]

I suspect this photo shows the very rifle in question - it is definitely an Aldis/Purdey SMLE with sporterised wood. Methven is the officer seated, with the rifle lying flat across his legs.

[superbee]

Wasn't there supposed to be a book printed on bailey's sharpshooters???

[Roger Payne]

Apparently the book to get, that includes a full description of Sir Abe Bailey's Sharpshooters & the rifle itself, is William Endley's 'South Africa at War - The Union Defence Force in World War 1'.

It looks to be a quality encyclopaedic tome, but is priced accordingly!

I think there was another book written on the unit some years ago, as well, but I have lost my reference to it. Will try & find it again......

[desperatedan]

Wasn't there supposed to be a book printed on bailey's sharpshooters???

Yes, it's mentioned at the very end of the auctioneers description - see above.

---------- Post added at 07:45 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:40 PM ----------

I suspect this photo shows the very rifle in question - it is definitely an Aldis/Purdey SMLE with sporterised wood. Methven is the officer seated, with the rifle lying flat across his legs.

From that photo Roger it confirms that sporterisation was de rigueur for most if not all of them.

[Roger Payne]

The cut back woodwork was seen on Ross sniper's rifles as well.

Incidentally, it looks like there are both PPCo & Aldis/Purdey rifles shown in the picture.

[superbee]

I can't seem to find a copy of the book anywhere.Anybody know of a copy for sale??