+ Reply to Thread
Results 1 to 8 of 8

Thread: No. 4 Mk. I TRIALS by R.S.A.F. Enfield 1933 - Caution advised on one for sale

Click here to increase the font size Click here to reduce the font size
  1. #1
    Contributing Member Seaforth72's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Last On
    03-26-2024 @ 03:01 AM
    Location
    Richmond, British Columbia, CANADA
    Posts
    366
    Real Name
    Colin MacGregor Stevens, CD
    Local Date
    03-28-2024
    Local Time
    03:59 AM

    No. 4 Mk. I TRIALS by R.S.A.F. Enfield 1933 - Caution advised on one for sale

    Caveat emptor (Buyer beware) A dealer in the UKicon is selling a 1933 dated No. 4 Mk. I Trials rifle made by R.S.A.F. Enfield, serial number A0169. Only about 2,500 No. 4 Mk. I Trials rifles were made in the early 1930s and about 1,400 of these are believed to have been converted to sniper equipment in late 1941 and 1942. The sniper examples, though rare, are more common today than those that were not converted. I have one 1931 No. 4 Mk. I (T) now and I have owned two others in the past. This No. 4 Mk. I Trials rifle for sale is one that was not converted to sniper equipment, and thus it is quite rare, one of about 1,100. The dealer has a price on it of USD $6,400 or GBP 4,800 (approximately CAD $8,190, AUD $8,985, NZD $9,381; Euro 5,655). (as of 2021-11-28) A buyer also has to also factor in taxes, shipping and perhaps export/import costs.

    The problem is that although is a rare rifle, but it is not '"totally original" as claimed by the seller. A potential buyer should be aware of that, and should ask for more photos and information to determine what is original and what has been replaced. Then they can decide if it is worth the asking price to them.

    In a quick comparison with my own 1931 R.S.A.F. Enfield No.4 Mk.I (T) I note that:

    1. The butt stock has been changed and does not have the brass butt disc. The fore-end has low wood to clear the magazine cut-off, but we do not know who the maker is or whether it has been modified from a standard later period high-wood fore-end. That low-wood pattern continued into 1941-1942 production even though the magazine cut-offs were not fitted on the wartime mass-production rifles.

    2. The backsight has been changed and it is now a Canadianicon one made by Small Arms Limited at Long Branch in 1941-1942.

    3. The magazine cut-off appears to be one from an SMLE / No. 1 rifle. Unlike mine, it has different markings, lacks the grasping ridges on the bulge and the hump in the middle is larger. The grasping portion should be rolled metal, but appears to be the milled SMLE/No. 1 pattern.

    4. The stacking swivel is missing.

    There are not enough photos of details to check everything e.g. Is the magazine the correct maker and model? Who made the fore-end and is it numbered to the rifle? Who was/were the maker(s) for the hand guards. Is the upper band hinged and made by Enfield? Is the wasp-waist (not "wasted" as stated in their ad) front sight guard Enfield marked? Is the Mk. I cocking piece Enfield marked? Is the lower band Enfield marked? Does the bolt serial number match? Are the trigger and trigger guard Enfield marked? Note that the parts should all have the Enfield monogram mark that looks like a "D" with the centre bar of a the E and F overlaid on the D.

    This same dealer is also selling a 1975 L42A1 in the chest and that has recently been discussed here on Milsurps. Anyone considering buying this No. 4 Mk. I Trials rifle is advised to also read that thread discussion.
    Information
    Warning: This is a relatively older thread
    This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.
    Colin MacGregor Stevens https://www.captainstevens.com [B]Model 1918 scope ideally w P14 rings; LB Scout Sniper Rifle windmill sight & furniture; No. 4 Mk. I* 28L0844; any rifle with S/N ASE-xxxx ; No.32 Mk. I SN 1042.

  2. The Following 8 Members Say Thank You to Seaforth72 For This Useful Post:


  3. # ADS
    Friends and Sponsors
    Join Date
    October 2006
    Location
    Milsurps.Com
    Posts
    All Threads
    A Collector's View - The SMLE Short Magazine Lee Enfield 1903-1989. It is 300 8.5x11 inch pages with 1,000+ photo’s, most in color, and each book is serial-numbered.  Covering the SMLE from 1903 to the end of production in India in 1989 it looks at how each model differs and manufacturer differences from a collecting point of view along with the major accessories that could be attached to the rifle. For the record this is not a moneymaker, I hope just to break even, eventually, at $80/book plus shipping.  In the USA shipping is $5.00 for media mail.  I will accept PayPal, Zelle, MO and good old checks (and cash if you want to stop by for a tour!).  CLICK BANNER to send me a PM for International pricing and shipping. Manufacturer of various vintage rifle scopes for the 1903 such as our M73G4 (reproduction of the Weaver 330C) and Malcolm 8X Gen II (Unertl reproduction). Several of our scopes are used in the CMP Vintage Sniper competition on top of 1903 rifles. Brian Dick ... BDL Ltd. - Specializing in British and Commonwealth weapons Specializing in premium ammunition and reloading components. Your source for the finest in High Power Competition Gear. Here at T-bones Shipwrighting we specialise in vintage service rifle: re-barrelling, bedding, repairs, modifications and accurizing. We also provide importation services for firearms, parts and weapons, for both private or commercial businesses.
     

  4. #2
    Contributing Member mrclark303's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Last On
    Yesterday @ 01:25 PM
    Location
    The wild west of England
    Posts
    3,401
    Real Name
    Mr Clark
    Local Date
    03-28-2024
    Local Time
    11:59 AM
    People really have to carry out due diligence checks on such specialised rifles.

    To be fair and playing devils advocate here, finding a trials rifle in full original guise, as it left Enfield, must be incredibly rare.

    It would have to have gone into a reference collection and never left. Any rifle that's seen use, will have replacement parts...

    That said, the RFD in question should give a detailed and accurate analysis of the piece.

  5. Thank You to mrclark303 For This Useful Post:


  6. Avoid Ads - Become a Contributing Member - Click HERE
  7. #3
    Legacy Member Enfieldlock's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Last On
    09-03-2023 @ 01:46 PM
    Location
    Kent. England.
    Posts
    131
    Real Name
    Jim
    Local Date
    03-28-2024
    Local Time
    05:59 AM
    The cut-off should be folded steel plate. I have the drawing of it along with the screw which is not the SMLE one. The thread is BA.

  8. #4
    Legacy Member martin08's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Last On
    Yesterday @ 08:57 PM
    Location
    Maine
    Posts
    323
    Local Date
    03-28-2024
    Local Time
    06:59 AM
    I have one which was converted to sniper, then de-snipered but the scope pads remain intact. What is an approximate value for that, please? Thanks.

    Edit to add: Here is a link to the pictures.

    https://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=53917
    Last edited by martin08; 11-30-2021 at 01:13 PM.

  9. #5
    Legacy Member superbee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Last On
    03-21-2024 @ 11:00 AM
    Location
    Newfoundland,Canada
    Posts
    325
    Local Date
    03-28-2024
    Local Time
    08:29 AM
    The trick with trials rifles is to find one not converted into a sniper. A rare find.

  10. #6
    Advisory Panel Surpmil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Last On
    @
    Location
    West side
    Posts
    4,651
    Local Date
    03-28-2024
    Local Time
    03:59 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by martin08 View Post
    I have one which was converted to sniper, then de-snipered but the scope pads remain intact. What is an approximate value for that, please? Thanks.

    Edit to add: Here is a link to the pictures.

    https://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=53917
    Which post number in that thread contains your photos?
    “There are invisible rulers who control the destinies of millions. It is not generally realized to what extent the words and actions of our most influential public men are dictated by shrewd persons operating behind the scenes.”

    Edward Bernays, 1928

    Much changes, much remains the same.

  11. #7
    Legacy Member martin08's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Last On
    Yesterday @ 08:57 PM
    Location
    Maine
    Posts
    323
    Local Date
    03-28-2024
    Local Time
    06:59 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by Surpmil View Post
    Which post number in that thread contains your photos?
    Unfortunately, it looks like all the pictures were lost during the recent site crash. I may have some original photos in archives. I will try to dig them up.

  12. #8
    Legacy Member martin08's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Last On
    Yesterday @ 08:57 PM
    Location
    Maine
    Posts
    323
    Local Date
    03-28-2024
    Local Time
    06:59 AM
    I found my pics in archives.

    I see no option to edit my original post from 2015, so I will add a few pictures here. Any ideas on recent value would be appreciated. Thank you.














  13. The Following 2 Members Say Thank You to martin08 For This Useful Post:


+ Reply to Thread

Similar Threads

  1. 1933 Trials Rifle Rearsight & Magazine
    By waco16 in forum The Lee Enfield Knowledge Library Collectors Forum
    Replies: 32
    Last Post: 07-19-2015, 02:34 PM
  2. 1933 Trials T
    By chosenman in forum The Lee Enfield Knowledge Library Collectors Forum
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: 09-25-2014, 04:37 PM
  3. 1933 Trials sniper
    By superbee in forum The Lee Enfield Knowledge Library Collectors Forum
    Replies: 64
    Last Post: 04-14-2014, 08:40 AM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Raven Rocks