My 43' LB - First (ever?) Teardown

[doca]

Got my 43 over the weekend and I never expected to find one looking so flawless, but with two unanticipated markings. Also, I've never disassembled a rifle that was so damn snug before. I'm not dumb enough to believe it, but it's like it was never taken down before.

Not seen in the pics are LB marks on the trigger, barrel bands, bolt, bolt head, front sight, trigger guard, safety and barrel and, C broad arrow on Canadian Mk 3 rear sight and butt plate. I'm sure I missed a few

Also, paired with a Mk II bayonet, marked with LB and broad arrow C, living in a British, carbon encrusted scabbard.

More talk alter; bring on the (before cleanup) pics:

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Attachment 121944 odd, huh?
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Information

Warning: This is a relatively older thread This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

[doca]

Forgot to add this pic: Any ideas what's the very centered G2 is all about? There's also a G on the barrel.

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[doca]

Note post #1, pic #4; the one with a Canadian Arsenals Ltd. stamp.
I wonder if this is one of the 70,000 from a cancelled order, ref: https://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=36140

Canadian Arsenals Limited.—This company was established under the Companies Act
by Letters Patent dated Sept. 20, 1945 and is subject to the Government Companies Operation
Act (RSC 1952, c. 133) and certain provisions ot the Financial Administration Act (RSC 1952,
c. 116). The company was set up to take over and operate Crown-owned plants and equipment.
It manufactures small arms and ammunition components and has extensive facilities for the filling
and assembly ot artillery ammunition, mines, bombs, grenades, rockets and other specialties up
to torpedo warheads. Its Divisions, together with the locations of their plants, are as follows:
Small Arms Division (Long Branch, Ont.) and Filling Division (St. Paul I'Ermite, Que.). The
company reports to Parliament through the Minister of Defence Production

[Brian Dick]

I hope you read up on the proper disassembly procedure, especially removing the forend. It's all here in Peter Laidler's articles. I see rifles from so many newbies with the draws shagged because of improper disassembly. Working on an ROF(F) No.4Mk.2 "as we speak" that is one of them. The new owner just had to tear it down, sand the **** out of it, apply lovely Midway poly finish and then install it incorrectly. I stripped the plastic banana finish and have restored it with raw linseed oil but the forend is totally out of whack and they aren't worth a crap with an ill fitting forend. Sometimes it's best to leave them alone.

[Brian Dick]

Your rifle strikes me as a Greek return. Much like the 200 or so LB No.4's I imported in 2001. None had any distinct Greek ownership marks but did sport commercial British proofs since they were purchased by a British company prior to export back to Canada. Some had stickers on the sides of the butts with the names and addresses of the Greek reserve soldiers to whom they were issued. The bolt has definitely been replaced in service and renumbered legitimately so it's seen some use. The CAL mark was probably applied after inspection there prior to it's export to Greece or possibly another European nation. Canada supplied these rifles to other nations well into the 1960's.

---------- Post added at 05:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:03 PM ----------

Might be Turks Jim!

[doca]

The only issue I had was that everything was so tightly put together. Had no issues with the forend, but took extra care with the barrel bands.
It was very easy, but I do have a copy of the Canadian Forces manuals for reference:

1. PARTS IDENTIFICATION LIST; RIFLE, .303 CALIBRE, LEE ENFIELD, No 4, ALL MARKS
2. EQUIPMENT DESCRIPTION; RIFLE, .303 CALIBRE, LEE ENFIELD, No 4,ALL MARKS
3. FIRST LINE MAINTENANCE INSTRUCTIONS; RIFLE, .303 CALIBRE, LEE ENFIELD, No 4, ALL MARKS

There's no indication that it was a Greek return because there are no foreign marks, at all. I've also read that the Greeks would serial the magazine; it's not there either. While it's good to be aware of it while I continue research, there's currently no evidence to suggest it ever left Canada.
The only kicker is that G2 and the mystery "O" or "Q" off on its own. If anyone has a resources regarding this, it would be much appreciated.

Lol, yeah I kinda thought moose/deer or perfect target shooting or something.
I get marking war kills on a rifle (almost always by people who shouldn't be bragging), but is it normal for people to mark a firearm with hunting kills?

Why do you think the bolt has be re-numbered? here's a better pic.

Attachment 121996

[Brian Dick]

Take the time to read Peter's articles listed on this site about working these rifles.

Greek and other European returns don't necessarily have any foreign markings as i said and not all Greek rifles had the magazines numbered although the majority do. The magazine could have also been replaced.

I make the observation having inspected several hundred Long Branch No.4's over many years. The font is different than what it left the factory with, (look at the serial number on the butt socket), and the rear side of the bolt body looks like it's been filed and renumbered. This is common and correct for a rifle that's been worked on in service. Is it a Long Branch bolt body? I can't really tell from your pictures. Your rifle would have likely had a Mk.2 flip sight as original so it's been through workshops a time or two for sure. I still sense a European return. It's a nice, honest rifle IMHO.

---------- Post added at 09:36 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:33 AM ----------

I'm not sure what the "O" and "G2" are. Guessing they are inspectors stamps used during production.

[Roger Payne]

If you look carefully you can see the direction of the original machining marks on the surface of the bolt body that bears the serial number. They 'go' in a different direction to the file/linish marks applied to lose the original number at the time that the replacement number (of your rifle) was applied. As Brian said, the size & font of the digits is also very different to those used by Long Branch. The blueing doesn't appear to match either, which isn't surprising. But as mentioned, it's a nice rifle & it's all part of its history.

[Brian Dick]

I'm glad you brought up the metal finish Roger. My guess is it was dip blued in Greek service. I had several wartime dated LB rifles in the load from CO that had the dark blue dip finish. I've also seen 1903 Springfields out of Greek service from the CMP with the same finish. It's not the original Dulite blue which wasn't too durable in wartime service. I think the Greek Armourers who were trained by the British and Commonwealth just stripped them, cleaned and degreased the metal and dropped them in the bath. Long Branch started Parkerizing in 1950 in the 93L serial range and rifles that saw post Korea FTR at CAL were Parkerized. You'll find a mixture of blue and Parkerized small parts on them. One of my favorite shooters is a 1942 with 2 groove barrel and CAL Parkerized finish. It's marked with the "C- Broad Arrow" ownership mark on the right side of the butt only and was imported from Canada by Century Arms.

[doca]

I'll definitely be getting more familiar with docs, now that I have hands on a true No.4.

I've seen a references about other LBs making it back, but all of them had some sort of non-factory marks. Just to be clear about marks; there are none that don't belong on a wartime LB, CDN issue No4, less the multiple CAs. I was actually surprised to see how my parts have LB on them, including the magazine. Most of them were removed from my EAL.

Regarding the CMK3 sight; Everything I've seen tells me that it's expected on 1942-1943 produced LB's.

I'd actually seen the bolt handle machining, but was oblivious to the font, lol. Stil not impossible that it was marked with different dies, but lol, highly unlikely. I can also make out what may be the surviving curve of an "0".
Everything about the bolt, including the handle (and chunky head), is marked LB. Here's the pics I have access to, at work:
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Speaking of pics.... I no longer think the 4 marks are deer/moose kills; unless these two on the inside are about unlicensed kills.

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