Original stock color of early M1s?

[jesse_]

Greetings! I was looking at some of the pics provided by RCS of early gas port rebuilds and something spoke to me. As I enjoy shooting, I would like to build something that would approximate one (well, as close as I can at the moment, I have some grooved handguard clips and lower bands).

I’m looking for the “proper color” if such a thing exists. Normally I strip all previous stain (even if new) and use a dye

I have read that sometime in 1942 Springfield went from a raw linseed oil dunk on stocks to a linseed/tung mix.

I have a few questions and hope to find some answers.

1. Do we know exactly when the switch to the mix happened?

2. Do we know what the actual proportion of the mix of linseed and “china wood oil” was?
3. What stain was used? Did they change the stain as production continued? (I know that they stopped using logwood earlier, also, I’ve seen pics that show very light-colored stocks, almost as if unstained Missouri black walnut).

4. Did Winchester continue using raw linseed straight or did they go to tung?

5. Did Winchester also use stain or did they use logwood? I swear I’ve seen some pics of Winchester stocks that look RED.

Also, I know everyone here collects. Is this the wrong forum for asking about this in order to put together my own? Is this more of a collectors only place?

Many Thanks

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[GColloton]

I think there’s a mix of answers regarding the use of raw linseed and or tung oil. I don’t think the finish will differ much. Both will have a similar matte/satin finish and will make the wood color look like it does when it’s wet. From my research, that reddish brown color came from the aging of the raw linseed oil over the last 75-80 years and from a mix of gun oil on the hands of the person maintaining the weapon. If you want to prematurely age the look of the wood you can blend some stains together and match the color, however it’s difficult for raw linseed oil to penetrate oil based stains. An alcohol based stain is best. Waterbased might also be an option.

[jesse_]

Thanks.

I'm going for as issued/rebuilt mid/late 1940. I don't have any stain as it always seems to muddy up the grain. I use dye exclusively. Mission Brown gives me a nice brown color that doesn't have any red tint (unlike what seems to be *every* walnut dye out there). I normally do 100% pure tung cut with citrus solvent.

Just trying to figure out what color to make the thing for that era.

Here is a Minelli that just came in from StockysStocks. This is unsealed. All it has is stain. These last few years Numrich sourced Minelli M1 and M1917 stocks have had a thin clearcoat (nasty).

How close does this come to what was original to the era indicated? I have a park tank that I fill with toluene to strip.

[jesse_]

By the way, here is an NOS Italian stock from 1971 that had its stain stripped, dyed with "mission brown", and then 12+ coats of tung oil

[Bob Seijas]

See if you can get to Rick borecky, he's our resident wood expert.

[ssgross]

If you want to prematurely age the look of the wood you can blend some stains together and match the color, however it’s difficult for raw linseed oil to penetrate oil based stains. An alcohol based stain is best. Waterbased might also be an option.

I have played around with blending stains. There are some expensive stains on brownells, and lots of posts and instructions online for using them to reproduce the right "military" color. In my experiments, these and other stains tend to put the color "on top" of the wood, and the grain gets lost when done, producing a washed out effect that makes the wood look like it was painted with watercolors.

I got the idea on this forum to start playing around with the traditional alkanet root. You can buy a jar of "organic alkanet root powder" it on Amazon for pretty cheap. Put 3 heaping tablespoons in an 8oz jar (like those tiny ones used for jelly), top off with denatured alcohol or turpentine. Shake it every day for a week. Then pour it through a coffee filter, or just let it sit so the powder becomes sediment. Wipe on. Using alcohol adds more color in fewer coats, but is tricky to apply evenly. Turpentine takes more coats, but is impossible to screw up. Your wood will dry with with pinkish hue. Then just use linseed oil or tung oil, or whatever finishing technique you prefer (ha! folks tend to cling to their methods like true religion). With the right sanding, I have gotten new wood to look like it was kept untouched in a warehouse for 100 years.

You can also skip the alkanet "stain", and top off your 8oz jar with 1:1 turpentine and raw linseed oil. Shake every day for several weeks - ideally for a month. This makes a traditional "red oil". To add more "age" to your stock, use your alkanet stain followed by your alkanet red oil. The beauty of alkanet, and why it was used for hundreds of years before, was because the color has a translucent complexity that you can't get with modern synthetic stains. The benefit and reason for using the latter is just simply time. You can also break with finish religion and use your alkanet with store-bought boiled linseed oil or tung oil to speed up the drying time. Buy some cheap test pieces and have fun with it, then create your own religion.

[jesse_]

In my experiments, these and other stains tend to put the color "on top" of the wood, and the grain gets lost when done, producing a washed out effect that makes the wood look like it was painted with watercolors.

Exactly! I've ever only used stains once and it was pretty gross.

And I will get some alkanet on order.

I would like to know, however, what did Springfield use when they stained their M1s? What did Winchester use?

There are snippets that shed light on things, like when the arsenal stopped using logwood. We know what the German ww1 helmet was painted with because it was in instructions given to troops and those survived.

I cant wait for Rick borecky to weigh in at some point.

But all input is appreciated, as I'm being exposed to techniques I've never seen or used before.

[browningautorifle]

I cant wait for Rick borecky to weigh in at some point.

Have you sent him a PM? It might be easier than waiting...

[ssgross]

I just happened to be doing an old CMP replacement stock for a 1903 today. It came on an M1903 parts queen I restored, had an ugly brown stain, and previous owner oiled it with something petroleum base. by the looks of the the inside, it was grease. Anyway, I finished sanding yesterday. The wood is pretty cheap mix of sapwood walnut. I'll collect some pics for you so you can see how it went.

[ssgross]

here you go. first pic is after staining with alkanet-alcohol last night, against a raw NOS scant I'm also working on for comparison of color. Next pick is after applying first bath of raw linseed oil today, then after letting it set for a couple hours, then I wiped off the excess and took the last pic.