Three Lee Enfield Carbines

[Promo]

I really lucked into a bunch of early Lee Enfield Rifles, among them were three Carbines. Since they are all different from each other and I'm not fully sure I got the story correct on all of them, I'd kindly appreciate feedback on what I missed/got wrong/should know on these pieces.


For the starting post I'll start with the first of the three:


1899 dating Enfield made Lee Enfield Carbine I. It is all matching numbers and even the stock cartouches are still visible. The brass disc in the butt keeps me a bit scratching my head since I originally thought the 3*96 might be for March 1896, but that would not fit to the 1899 receiver ring. I noticed the sales stamp in the butt stock too. If you look close btw you can still make out the Enfield roundel, under it I. and then again under it 1. By who was this rifle being used?

Information

Warning: This is a relatively older thread This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

[Promo]

Second rifle, this one is similar (identical?) to another Lee Enfield Carbine that I have already owned. It is NZ marked and has a mismatching bolt. The stock disc is made of steel (?), Drill Purpose stamped on top of the receiver. Interestingly this one though has two receiver ring inscriptions. Top one for Enfield 1894 I. where the I. is lined out, and under it again stamped Enfield, this time 1903 and LEC over II* (I hope I'm reading it correctly as II), so reworked from a LEC I to LEC II*? Additional question, does the 13 on the barrel shank indicate rebarreled in 1913? The "KHZ Hall 303 Brit." on the receiver is a German importer marking, as is the 671 on the barrel shank (proof date June 1971).

[Promo]

Third, a Royal Irish Constabulary Carbine, as already indicated by the unit disc inscription. Does the "3 '05" indicate it was put into service in March 1905? Unfortunately the stock of this one once was cleaned, fortunately the stock cartouche is though still visible. For what I can tell it is all matching numbers too. The receiver ring being Enfield 1901 over I* (?) and LEC stamped doesn't really fit to the stock stamps, which are from 1903.

[Promo]

For what it is worth, I posted pictures of the LEC that I have already owned back in 2020 here: https://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=71720
Just noticed the pictures were lost and I re-added them. It was interesting myself to compare them. Seems this one is identical to #2 of the Carbines in here, but though only one receiver marking and not two - what makes even less sense, considering the one from the linked thread has a lower serial (#940) and dates to 1901, whereas #2 from this thread here has 1894 and 1903 receiver markings, but serial being #1825.

[smle addict]

Beautiful trio of early carbines. You New Zealand carbine began life and a Magazine Lee Metford Carbine mk I, then converted to Magazine Lee Enfield Carbine. Most likely done when it was made for the New Zealand contract. These carbines for NZ were made from new receivers as well as obsolete patterns. Thanks for posting; those early carbines are truly works of art.

[Promo]

That is interesting, how do you tell this rifle originally was a Lee Metford Carbine? Only based on the receiver ring markings?


Secondly, it seems the Carbine from my first post is a cavalry carbine. At least others that had the same style stock and nosecap were named this way. Did I identify it correctly?

[smle addict]

On the second carbine posted, the NZ carbine, the high markings on the left side of the butt-socket indicate the receiver was originally a lee metford carbine. These were marked higher because the sling loop D-ring was directly below it. These were removed in service, leaving these carbines with their markings high up on the socket, and a smooth clear area below. When the NZ carbine contract was formulated, Enfield utilized new and used receivers for this small run. As the carbines were now obsolete, many of these older receivers were utilized to fill the NZ order. I have two MLM carbines; one still has its D-ring intact, the other has been ground off.

I dont have access to my LE books right now, but I believe the correct nomenclature for the NZ carbine was, "Carbine, fitted for Pattern 88 bayonet" or something close to that. Someone on here will correct me if I screwed that up.

Great pictures!

[Surpmil]

I really lucked into a bunch of early Lee Enfield Rifles, among them were three Carbines. Since they are all different from each other and I'm not fully sure I got the story correct on all of them, I'd kindly appreciate feedback on what I missed/got wrong/should know on these pieces.

For the starting post I'll start with the first of the three:

1899 dating Enfield made Lee Enfield Carbine I. It is all matching numbers and even the stock cartouches are still visible. The brass disc in the butt keeps me a bit scratching my head since I originally thought the 3*96 might be for March 1896, but that would not fit to the 1899 receiver ring. I noticed the sales stamp in the butt stock too. If you look close btw you can still make out the Enfield roundel, under it I. and then again under it 1. By who was this rifle being used?

https://www.milsurps.com/attachment....19&cid=1&stc=1

https://www.milsurps.com/attachment....24&cid=1&stc=1

The wear looks commensurate with banging around the veldt for a while: 7th Dragoon Guards - Wikipedia

The "71401" is not a service number from the Boer War era, whatever else it may be. Army Service Numbers 1881-1918: 7th (Princess Royal's) Dragoon Guards

[tatou]

That is interesting, how do you tell this rifle originally was a Lee Metford Carbine? Only based on the receiver ring markings?


Secondly, it seems the Carbine from my first post is a cavalry carbine. At least others that had the same style stock and nosecap were named this way. Did I identify it correctly?

Beautiful carbines Promo. Congratulation on acquiring them.

smle addict, Skennerton list the NZ carbine as ''Magazine Lee-Enfield Carbine Fitted for Pattern 18888 Bayonet (N.Z. Model) ... quite a mount full lol
coggansfield (Doug Munroe) who has published a couple of small but very nice books about those carbines mentions that according to LoC #10220 (may 1900) the nomenclature is ''Carbine Magazine, Lee Enfield : fitted to take the pattern 18888 sword bayonet''.
He simply calls them ''LEC 88 (NZ)'' for the title of his first book.

He as made a survey of all the carbines he could locate and if you contact him he will add yours to the list (if it's not already there)
You might even get lucky and find your original bolt serial in there.

Here's what your cypher and D-Ring would have originally looked like on your NZ Carbine.(smle addict was talking about)

[Promo]

I don't know Doug Munroe and his book, thanks for pointing it out. Can you tell him of my rifle?


Thanks for the picture of this D ring, now I understand what he was referring to.