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  1. #11
    Legacy Member Simon P's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeeRam View Post
    Not ever heard that.........and I'd be astonished if it were true, as given that virtually none of the kit taken in, came out, they would have been captured by the Germans.

    Some of them went in with M1icon Carbines though.

    Has the operation taken place a month or two later, they might have gone in with No.5's instead of No.4's as well.
    Peter Laidlers book "Guns of Dagenham" page 56 mentions some may have been taken to Arnhem, mentions Serial No's 067, 070 & 072
    Regards Simon

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    A Collector's View - The SMLE Short Magazine Lee Enfield 1903-1989. It is 300 8.5x11 inch pages with 1,000+ photo’s, most in color, and each book is serial-numbered.  Covering the SMLE from 1903 to the end of production in India in 1989 it looks at how each model differs and manufacturer differences from a collecting point of view along with the major accessories that could be attached to the rifle. For the record this is not a moneymaker, I hope just to break even, eventually, at $80/book plus shipping.  In the USA shipping is $5.00 for media mail.  I will accept PayPal, Zelle, MO and good old checks (and cash if you want to stop by for a tour!).  CLICK BANNER to send me a PM for International pricing and shipping. Manufacturer of various vintage rifle scopes for the 1903 such as our M73G4 (reproduction of the Weaver 330C) and Malcolm 8X Gen II (Unertl reproduction). Several of our scopes are used in the CMP Vintage Sniper competition on top of 1903 rifles. Brian Dick ... BDL Ltd. - Specializing in British and Commonwealth weapons Specializing in premium ammunition and reloading components. Your source for the finest in High Power Competition Gear. Here at T-bones Shipwrighting we specialise in vintage service rifle: re-barrelling, bedding, repairs, modifications and accurizing. We also provide importation services for firearms, parts and weapons, for both private or commercial businesses.
     

  3. #12
    Contributing Member Gil Boyd's Avatar
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    Hi Guys,
    From a Parachute Regiment Museum perspective, this question comes up fairly regularly. We have to deal with facts.

    The South Staffs were apparently supposed to have taken 100 with them on Operation Market Garden. I can conclusively state at the time of the commencement of the Operation there were non manufactured.
    There is no mention on STICK lists we hold or QM weaponry taken. We also hold the Germanicon lists of weapons seized on the operation, which were often tested by them if they saw anything new.
    Only three (3) prototypes were produced in October 1944 and remained at the Airborne Forces Development Centre, Salisbury Plains.

    The myth, which is what it was, stems from one of a large number of inaccuracies from the book THE PARAS - BRITISH AIRBORNE FORCES 1940-1984 by Gregor Ferguson released by Osprey-Elite series publishers.
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Name:	The Paras. Brit Abn Forces 1940-84. (46).jpg Innaccurate Words on Patchett SMG.jpg‎
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    Last edited by Gil Boyd; 06-30-2022 at 09:40 AM.
    'Tonight my men and I have been through hell and back again, but the look on your faces when we let you out of the hall - we'd do it all again tomorrow.' Major Chris Keeble's words to Goose Green villagers on 29th May 1982 - 2 PARA

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  6. #13
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    Peter Laidler's Avatar
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    Patchett guns weren't taken to Arnhem. There were only 3 guns available at the time and they were at the ABF experimental Establishment. David Howroy always told me that Patchett always used to 'imply' that they were used in action there - but he was a salesman, trying to sell his own wares....., as he put it kindly!

    As for the picture (above) of the curved magazine, I say no more.......

    Maybe Patchetts at Arnhem ought to be put into the same category as religion and politics. Not discussed at dinner or in ones Mess, Lodge or Common Room for fear of causing upset! (Along with those other similar no-no's. Such as Waterless coolant and silicone brake fluid in your car)

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  8. #14
    Contributing Member Gil Boyd's Avatar
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    or...................................the 48 Spitfires buried in their crates in the Philipines during the Second World War that are still there and waiting to be discovered.
    Thanks Peter says it all and corroborates our Regimental Museum facts at Duxford.
    'Tonight my men and I have been through hell and back again, but the look on your faces when we let you out of the hall - we'd do it all again tomorrow.' Major Chris Keeble's words to Goose Green villagers on 29th May 1982 - 2 PARA

  9. #15
    Legacy Member GeeRam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Laidlericon View Post
    Such as Waterless coolant and silicone brake fluid in your car)


    So, true.
    Just the thing for putting round holes in square heads.

  10. #16
    Contributing Member Flying10uk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simon P View Post
    mentions some may have been taken to Arnhem
    I believe that there are several books, out there, that suggest this but don't know of any producing a photo to prove it.

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    And carrying a different Sten, or is the fore-grip removable?
    “There are invisible rulers who control the destinies of millions. It is not generally realized to what extent the words and actions of our most influential public men are dictated by shrewd persons operating behind the scenes.”

    Edward Bernays, 1928

    Much changes, much remains the same.

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    Thread Starter
    Not sure on the different Sten as the pictures may not have been in the same time frame as he is wearing totally different kit in the smaller pic plus in the heat of battel weapons can get shot out of your hands so he procured another!

    Some trivia;
    I worked with a WWII vet when I was farming he became a POW of the Germans and said his 303 rifle was shot out of his hands just prior to his capture, of his confinement he said little except being one night caught outside the wire stealing potatoes.
    The guard said don't ever let me catch you outside again or I'll have to shoot you, and with that John went back with stuffed pockets for his hut never again did he go outside........

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  14. #19
    Contributing Member Flying10uk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CINDERS View Post
    The guard said don't ever let me catch you outside again or I'll have to shoot you
    The guard had to really say that as it wasn't a "holiday camp" and he didn't want to get in trouble himself. Who knows if he actually would have carried out his threat.

  15. #20
    Advisory Panel Surpmil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CINDERS View Post
    Not sure on the different Sten as the pictures may not have been in the same time frame as he is wearing totally different kit in the smaller pic plus in the heat of battle weapons can get shot out of your hands so he procured another!

    .....
    Was wondering about that: no helmet visible in the smaller photo either. Not that there weren't some spares around as the operation progressed I suppose.
    “There are invisible rulers who control the destinies of millions. It is not generally realized to what extent the words and actions of our most influential public men are dictated by shrewd persons operating behind the scenes.”

    Edward Bernays, 1928

    Much changes, much remains the same.

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