Pattern 1913 quiz

**breakeyp** · 08-13-2022 04:31 PM

We have not had a quiz lately. I don't like the phrase "rare" but what pictured is seldom seen? (In my opinion)

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**Highly Recommended** · 08-13-2022 04:31 PM

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**RCS** · 08-13-2022 05:56 PM

The Pattern 1913 rifles are quite rare and the cartridges are not common, but the five round charger is almost never seen

**browningautorifle** · 08-13-2022 09:13 PM

Agreed, seldom see the P13 rifle but you don't even find the little charger clips at cartridge collector shows.

By the way, is that a #5 Mills bomb there? Another seldom seen artifact...I think they were made in 1915 only and so improved over that those disappeared quickly.

**Roger Payne** · 08-14-2022 05:12 AM

I think the sectioned Mills is a No23 Mk1. It's essentially a No5 with the base plug beefed up to take a grenade launching rod. The No23 Mk2 is also virtually the same but the base plugs are a little different (& more variable from manufacturer to manufacturer) in shape. The No23 Mk3 is the extensively redesigned No36 body with the No23 Mk2 base plug fitted to allow the earlier Adams (sheet metal) 'launchers' to be used with the 'new' No36 shaped grenades.

**Promo** · 08-14-2022 06:14 AM

I think the rarest thing is to see no toes in the first picture.

Kidding aside, very nice! Are all four .276 caliber or is one altered in?

**breakeyp** · 08-14-2022 11:45 AM

All four are unaltered/untouched.

The grenade base is marked No. 23.

I concur that the stripper clip/charger s the most seldom seen. I have only seen the two I have and I would not have known what they were without them holding one and five cartridges. The are unmarked as the cartridges never went into mass production with multiple production sources.

Boxed where I can't easily get to it, I have an Enfield produced excellent condition Pattern 1913 bayonet that went through the quillion removal process.

**browningautorifle** · 08-14-2022 02:31 PM

Originally Posted by breakeyp

The grenade base is marked No. 23.

Is there a chance you could do a few pics to expose that one over in "Vintage military gear"?

**Alan de Enfield** · 08-14-2022 03:35 PM

WW1 No3 Grenade launcher.

The bracket was fitted to the end of a Short Magazine Lee Enfield Rifle icon

and held a No23 Grenade which was fitted with a rod screwed into the base plate.
The No 3 Grenade Launcher was adopted to enable the launching of a No 23, or a similar bomb from a Lee Enfield Rifle, it’s base had a threaded hole into which a rod could be screwed, this was fed down the barrel of the gun after the launching bracket had been mounted. The former was then fired using a blank cartridge.

No5 Grenades had no hole in the base plate, but a No 23 base would fit a No 5 Grenade.
So it follows that many No 5 units can be found with No 23 bases.
The launchers intention was to hold the safety lever in place, after the pin had been removed, until the unit was fired.

**browningautorifle** · 08-14-2022 03:52 PM

Gotta love the ones that came out of the ground.

**Roger Payne** · 08-14-2022 05:02 PM

Here's one for you then Jim. A selection of ground dug stuff. Before anyone panics the rust & dirt encrusted No5 grenade is empty.....!

Anyone notice anything slightly unusual about the other No5 grenade?

The three launcher/lever retainers are the Adams type, named after Captain Adams of the RE depot at St Omer where he developed them. All three are ground dug but the one in which the original maker's marks are visible was obviously retrieved & cleaned up a long time ago. The one that differs slightly in shape to the other two is a two piece riveted together early pattern. I've never seen any reference to this variation, but the example shown came out of Bernafay Wood on the Somme about twenty years ago.

In case anyone else has more than a passing interest in British icon

& Dominion WW1 era grenades, the two books shown are fairly new out - written since Covid by the author who is very well informed & a thoroughly decent chap.

And the odd No5 grenade.................? If you look carefully you can see a casting join around the two halves of the grenade......but in this case the join runs horizontally around the waist of the grenade, NOT vertically, as is generally seen. Early on in production both methods of casting were used, but the 'horizontal' join soon went in favour of the vertical pattern. It was found there was less wastage using left & right halves rather than top & bottom halves.